New half flipping flags meta?


#1

So I was thinking about how a potential for countering dual catapults would be to flip the top or middle flag, then half flip the other flag (top or middle). This would make it so dual catapults (or other twice shooting punchers/flywheels) usually miss one flag. I’m not saying this is a strategy a team should plan around or strategize around, but something to keep in mind. I think this technique would be a possible benefit especially towards teams not in the lead so the opposing teams can’t immediately take back flags (hopefully). What are your guys’ opinions?


#2

I don’t know about you but the duel catapults I’ve comepteted against don’t have problems toggleing flags when one is neutral and one is toggled


#3

I’m just saying it might miss more often than normal (and this goes for all double shots with mechanisms)


#4

I don’t think this is viable, for one, you have to make one of your shots less effective, and I’ve yet to see a catapult where this would cause it to miss


#5

I agree that it’s kind of a waste of time to toggle flags to neutral rather than just toggling them to your color. I don’t think it would have any notable impact on an adequately driven 2BC.


#6

Sometimes what we do if we go against a double catapult is instead of hit two flags that are on the same column we’ll hit two flags that are side by side instead. If done correctly and timed well it can throw them off sometimes.


#7

Not only is this a wasteful strategy, but any decent double catapult driver can easily work around this by either positioning their robot differently for aiming, or by doing single shots to counter @ZackJo 's strategy. I find it interesting (and quite flattering) that people are fearing double catapults so much, and I wonder why you wouldn’t make a double catapult or other angle changing shooter yourself, as simply scoring fast is the best counter to any robot.


#8

Yes, you have to strategize against 2BCs to negate their shot efficiency. Before I switched over, I had a whole list of options to combat them.


#9

Most 2BC’s have multiple single shot positions for both the top and middle flags. And, more often than not, they are most consistent than the double shot. So far, I have not seen this strategy work well against a good 2BC.


#10

While scoring fast will win you most matches there are ways to slow down someones scoring, whether it be defense or the choice of flags you shoot. If you force your opponent to do something that you are better at then that can severely help you, even if your opponent is a faster scorer. For example punchers and flywheels are far better at single shots than double catapults due to the angle adjusting capabilities, one thing that I have been seeing is punchers have been able to shoot two flags side by side from the same spot while double catapults can’t for the most part.

I think each of the big shooter designs have a counter strategy made for them at this point, considering their all scoring so fast now.


#11

I’m struggling to think of any counter besides physically shoving/blocking the shooter? What strategies did you have in mind? Blocking with caps?


#12

Cap blocking was on my list, as a matter of fact. that along with things such as scoring flags, then rolling balls to the opposite corner of the field to slow them down, if I’ve got time.
I also had a couple of things with shooting cross-court to stay in their way, but, now that I have a 2BC, I’m hoping that people don’t come up with some of my more random ideas that would really mess wit my generic strategy.


#13

Honestly, any competent double catapult or ball shooter for that matter will be able to toggle the half turned flag. If anything, you’re making it easier for the shooter to toggle the flag in some instances.


#14

The best way to beat a faster robot than you (flywheel DS, angle changing puncher, or 2BC) is with auton and park. If you have one of these designs very well done you do not have to worry about 2BCs, The difference in speed between 2BCs and other designs that allow you to quickly shoot from one position is not enough to make a difference. Personally, flywheels and angle changing punchers allow for some really interesting autonomi that most 2BCs can’t.


#15

you can also make it a bit more difficult for 2bc to match by only toggling one in each set if they’re designed that they cant hold one ball in their intake or you see that they have already loaded two


#16

Until I reveal my master race of horizontal 2BCs. They’ll have 9 slots with a selectable loader.

Jk. Maybe post-season.

Edit: actually, this was something I thought of very early season. But I decided it would load too slowly and the spot selection (6 at the time) would be too slow. And complicated.
I was hoping someone would do it, but apparently not. It would be awesome, however.


#17

Ermm… we did it in nbn… 4-ball horizontal catapult… :stuck_out_tongue:
But I have not thought of a 9-ball catapult though.


#18

Yes, I know that n-ball catapults were big in NBN coupled with flywheels. I wasn’t around then to see the design evolve, but I’ve seen mixed vids.

Seeing someone implement it in TP to counter a specific few robots would be interesting. Maybe interchangeable carriages would be cool.


#19

Actually, it was not big… it was so small that we were the only 4-ball catapult in nbn worlds. lol…


#20

2bc can do single shots just as well as they can shoot 2