I doubt that since that would mean FIRST or PITSCO would have to subsidize $3100 for most teams. That would add up quite fast.
Not true - If you want to debate it we can.
Whats there to debate? You think the VEX starter kit by itself is comparable to the FTC competition kit?
To look at that subject another way - Zowwee! Buying parts individually to extend or replace the supply in the basic Tetrix package must be an expensive proposition. I had not done that calculation before.
To be fair, the prices of spare/extra parts for a Vex bot sometimes make me wince too.
Blake
A) I never said that.
B) I did write that I do not think that the Tetrix Kit comes with a “Lot” of metal. When I wrote that I left room for differences of opinon.
C) I especially take issue with this claim “take the Vex Starter kit, throw in a programming kit, its still about 1/10th of the tetrix kit and for only $50 bucks less”.
Item “B”, and item “C” in particular seem eminently debatable to me.
I think that if all we replace hyperbole with material like the table rwsmay put together, we will all do ourselves a favor.
Blake
Fot those who are in the know"
Has FIRST specified that we are required to use only a single tetrix kit in our robots? (seriously i don’t know that one)
I remember rummers of us being alloud to use vex metal, what of that?
will the tetrix kit be enough to build a robot with the same quality as the vex robots we are used to seeing in competition?
Um… what? I was just trying to understand what you meant by your past comments. So you were responding to Basicxman’s comments on the kit?
A. I never said you said that. I was wondering if that was what you meant (note the question marks).
B. I agree that it might not be a lot of metal, but it is more than what comes with a standard VEX kit, and maybe even with the metal pack added on.
C. 1/10 is a bit exaggerated, but I think we can all agree that for $150 dollars more you get a lot more kit.
Yes I believe only one tetrix kit will be given, but I believe that extra parts and/or add-on sets will be available.
Vex Metal is allowed last I heard. Just the metal no other parts.
If we compare apples to apples, one FTC kit will build a better robot then one built out of just the VEX kit (I am going to get killed for that comment :P), but being that both kits are very different its really hard to compare. It would be better to compare equal amounts of money spent per robot instead of looking at the kits themselves.
Well to get even more basic than that, consider the already mentioned power transmission components such as chain/sprocket and tank treads. These are fairly common supplemental accessories that a lot of teams take advantage of.
Even things in the starter kit that you might overlook initially such as those 12" long square axles, or just the sheer quantity of spur gears you get in the starter kit.
But you know what… on second thought I may not be giving the FTC community enough credit. I will bet that when competition time comes around we will see some innovative things done by teams to overcome all these perceived limitations.
I am pretty sure that was the whole idea to begin with.
And just for comparison,
http://eaglevex.syraweb.org/FTCkit/FTCkit_5842y.jpg Prototype kit, this has changed a little.
http://www.robotiq.co.uk/ccp51/media/images/product_detail/vex_starter_kit_large.gif
As I’ve said before, I’m sorry for the delay – they will be out when they are ready, and not before.
but the Vex kit comes with a transmitter and reciever, and look, $300 for a transmitter and reciever for Tetrix!
that receiver for Tetrix is not the one being used for FTC, that one on the Tetrix catalog is for other hobbyist’s, it is a fully featured R/C controller and those normally run around that price anyways 
As for lowfategg’s comparison in pictures I would just like to add that, that picture of the Tetrix kit does not show everything you get
In Tetrix the motor’s are stronger, thus there retail value is going to be higher, and you get 4 DC and 4 servo thus you already have double the motors.
There’s five sizes of aluminum C channels in Tetrix, you get four of each. Therefore you already have more metal then the Vex starter kit. Plus you then also get quite a few servo brackets of various variations and some metal angles, flat bars, and their equivalent of the Vex 15x5’s
You also get I believe twelve 100mm axles. That’s a lot more the what comes in the Vex kit afaik.
Plus, you do get an NXT Education Kit WHICH is apx. the same price as the Vex Starter Kit (at least in CAD)!
Then there’s all the sensors, I don’t believe anybody has mentioned that yet. Tetrix starter kit comes with sound, ultrasonic, touch (~3), light, compass, accelerometer, colour, and I believe possibly a couple more.
On a separate note, this can be a very interesting thread so everybody keep their cool and this won’t end up being a flame war followed my a blocked thread. That would be very disappointing.
One thing I would like to point out. Strictly speaking competition wise for most people I expect they would rather have more control over what they purchased. For example maybe I want more metal and less sensors, or maybe I want to build a really sensor intensive robot. You don’t have as much CHOICE with the FTC since you get a kit.* With the VRC you get a kit but are expected to purchase add-ons to get the right combination.
*It is still not clear whether or not add-ons will be available for use in the FTC or whether or not we will be allowed to use VEX metal, this will be clear once the new manual is released.
All the electronics are not being used for FTC, the tetrix kit transmitter is just for the robotics kit Pitsco is selling for its retail shoppers.
The electronics for FTC are going to be supplied by Lego and Hitechnic.
I think
http://eaglevex.syraweb.org/FTCkit/FTCkit_5842y.jpg
compared to
would be a better assessment of the Educational/Classroom/Competition versions of the kits. The Vex photo above is of the Vex Classroom Kit. If you look at the amount and diversity of stuff you get in the Vex kit (tank tread kit, advanced gear kit, chain and sprocket kit, etc.) as opposed to the FTC kit (a limited number of expensive aluminum pieces), and then compare the $900 price of the FTC kit to the $700 for the Vex Classroom Kit, it’s not hard to see which more people would most likely prefer.
yeah vex looks better
Ohhh pretty, did not know they sold that kit.
But even this comparison still has some large gaps that need to be accounted for when doing a comparison. The Vex Classroom kit does not include the following which is included in the FTC kit in some form or fashion.
7 additional motors/servos
3 encoders (built into the lego motors)
4 additional sensors (color/light/compass/gyro)
2 additional programming packages **** edit **** I just noticed that the kit does not include software, just the cable…
3 additional programming packages
Although from the photo I only see 3 of the 4 sensors that were in the showcase kit distributed to teams back in the spring.
Again… all things being equal, both kits compare favorably with respect to cost.
The FTC kit looks like a reasonable deal at $900 and a great deal at $450, but one restriction is that only FTC registered teams can purchase one (and only during registration season), while the Vex educational kit can be purchased by anyone any time. When you add in the $275 for registration vs. $75 for Vex, things get muddier. The $75/team deal is even sweeter with the secondary robot allowed for the programming challenge. Our team of 7 had originally planned to register a second team at $25 extra because life was getting crowded on one bot. But it’s now likely that we’ll do fine with one team – 3 of the students will probably want to work mainly on the programming bot, leaving the primary bot to a manageable core of 4
It had always been my frustration that the FLL robot kit (a similarly good deal) could only be purchased May - September during registration, as many start-up teams I’ve recruited like to start learning in January (immediately after they’ve spectated at a competition) and can’t capitalize on the cheap package deal. It looks like the same dilemma will hold true for FTC.
Rswsmay,
Are we looking at the same kits? I am not sure how you can say these are equal. I have been trying to decide between the two for awhile now, and unless I am missing something this is what I see:
The Vex classroom kit with over 1100 parts ($699), with programming software ($50) and registration fee ($75) would cost us about $825 and give us LOTS of stuff to build a great robot.
The FTC kit with only 600 parts is $900 and the registration is $275 and it doesn't look like it comes with any curriculum like the Vex kit. Then I saw that Pitsco catalog and the prices for extra FTC parts are insulting ($24 for 1 wheel - are you kidding me?). So a FTC team will cost us a minimum of $1175. $350 more than Vex, and Vex has many more parts plus curriculum.
I do not consider myself loyal to FIRST or Vex, just trying to find the best deal for our teams, but we can field 2 Vex teams for $1600 and 2 FTC teams would cost us over $2300 (we could just use that extra $700 and get a third Vex classroom kit for the same price as two FTC kits). Plus the Vex looks like the Vex kit comes with Tank Treads, Chains, Sprockets, Bevel Gears, Worm Gears, Rack and Pinion, and so much more that I do not see in the FTC kit.
I am sorry to disagree with your post, but it does not seem like the two are that equal to me. Even so, if we can find the budget we are still thinking of doing FTC just to try it, but I am not sure we can justify it at the much higher prices.