In the January 28th update, the SG5b, SG5d and Note 2 of SG5 have all been updated so you can no longer roll the ball into the intake of a robot. How will this affect the skills leader boards and any skills to come? I know that the intake extender was used for first place in the world rankings, and they do roll the ball into the intake.
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Yes, I have no idea what the rest of the world is going to do now, this score seems almost untouchable without the throwing/ rolling method and seems like skills has basically died as a result. I am opening a Q&A to ask about this issue right now.
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This will have a “Big” impact in autonomous.
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I guess teams just need to get more creative, maybe have faster intakes. But I guess the world skills record will be hard to beat for a while.
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This is the Q&A question I sent to my coach (A revised version was also emailed to the GDC) Q&A Question:
According to the Game Manual update today (Version 3.0), rolling the ball into the robot is now banned despite this being the way all the top scores in skills are achieved. There is video of the current Rank 1 Middle School Team using this rolling method to reach 1016 points in skills (Video 1 and Video 2) I know Vex doesn’t review video evidence, however this change has completely cut teams off from the top scores in the world. These teams who had the opportunity to use this method before rolling was banned were able to access incredibly efficient skills runs, but the teams that didn’t get to use them yet were effectively removed from being able to compete with these scores. SG5 Note 2 states that “Note 2: The revised intent of this rule is that the human Loader should not impart any motion to a Rapid Load Ball.” despite the fact that teams have used methods of “imparting motion” upon rapid loaded balls before the ban of rolling or “imparting motion”. My question is how does every team have an even chance if methods are able to be used by some teams that are then banned by the GDC, effectively taking away opportunities from these other teams. This situation seems very similar to the dump bots in pitching in, who would high hang with every ball on the field, being able to max the score very soon after the release of the game. However, they were banned before anyone was able to use them in an official competition. In this case though, the methods WERE used and used to score much higher (200-300 points higher than some of the previous world high scores) and these scores are staying on the leaderboard. I understand the Q&A isn’t supposed to be used as an “I disagree with this rule, change it” type of thing but I (and many other teams I’m sure) are very unhappy with this change. A great example of this is the forum, where people are already talking about how much of an extreme gap this will create between pre-ban and ban time period scores. SG5 was already edited earlier in the year to clarify rolling was legal (although discouraged) and that would’ve been a great opportunity to just ban it before any of these methods for much higher scores were brought to light. I think a clarification on this ruling would be nice to understand where it came from when the “cat was already out of the bag” so to speak with these methods and this ban sets a bad precedent for future situations like this. Finally (sorry if I’m repetitive) this just creates a void of scores that is (with current public knowledge) unreachable.
Thank you so much for any clarification!
I just want to add that now the top scores are practically impossible to beat or equal out on because you can’t roll the ball into a robotics intake.
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I don’t think the highest score will ever be beaten. 44 balls in one minute was already increadibly difficult with rolling the balls. Without rolling the balls, I don’t think that score will be possible because of not having enough torque for a 5:1 intake. I can almost garuntee that intake extentions will still be prevelant bacause they take away alot of the driving nesscary. I think they will just be shorter.
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Exactly the issue I have with it, scores are just untouchable. Extensions will still be just as long I think, but with the placing of balls getting 35+ is most likely going to be a stretch at least with robots that people have right now.
I think that the rule makes sense. Watching the videos with very large scores made me think “This shouldn’t be legal”. However, it is doubtful that anyone will beat the world high score now that rolling is illegal. I think that the GDC made the right choice with this rule, but now it is highly likely that nobody will beat the high score now.
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If they didn’t want this to happen why would they make the build limit six feet. It gave so much freedom and teams use it and then they ban it? Anyways while I understand that it’s not the intended solution, and defeats several other teams being creative. I think a rule that bans large modifications between skills and teamwork much more fitting this would require teams to choose one to focus on and leave room for a new meta with a better design that would allow teams to be competitive in both
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Does this new rule apply to Rapid Load during autonomous mode? or only Rapid Load during the last 15 seconds of Skills with driver and teamwork matches?
This rule applies to all types of rapid loading in driver, autonomous, and last 15 seconds of teamwork.
The build size of 6’x2’ was either a red herring (to distract you from the real limit of the height) or to see what people would build.
So will we see a new, best robot that is 6’ long and can just run the ball the length of the field? The longest I’ve seen locally is about 28" long.
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