There are numerous robot reveals on YouTube that advertise that the robot can stack 15 cones onto a single mobile goal, but how important is that? Personally I don’t think it is, but I’d like other people’s opinions on the matter.
My reasoning behind this is that almost every In The Zone match video I have seen, there has been only a handful of matches where robots are stacking over 8 cones on a mobile goal. Maybe I’m not watching the same videos or most recent videos but I’m just going off of what I’ve seen.
So my question is, is it better to have a robot that can stack 15 cones on a mobile goal and take up the entire duration of the match doing so, or is it better to have a robot that can stack 6-7 cones on every mobile goal in the duration of the match. Also, as the season progresses, will this change?
Speed is better. If you can score more points in the same amount of time you are more likely to win. For example, if you can put 8 cones one a mobile goal, but you opponent can put four on every mobile goal during the match, the opponent will win. This is because they have more cones scored in the same amount of time.
I agree with @Purple Knight in that speed is more important. The high stack bonus isn’t going to be the end of the world if you can get consistent stacks.
I think the crucial thing to do is monitor your opponent and go just 1, maybe 2 cones above them. For example, if somebody scores something in the 10 point zone with 8 cones on it, it’s worth it to lose a little speed to stack 9 or 10 instead of your normal 7 and win the bonus. However, if somebody stacks like 14 cones, you should probably just go for speed. Also, I think that this forced choice of speed or height is a problem that is going to have to be solved with faster lifts as the season goes on.
Yup, pretty much. I had a pretty slow robot(ok, very slow :P) at our last competition but there were a few times where surveying the other team and not spending more time on something than I needed to(ie if the other teams scored a mobile goal with no cones on it in the 20 point zone than all i need to stack is 1 cone on our 20 point zone mobile goal so that I can get the high stack bonus) won us the match.
In general I agree that speed is usually better, but one team we partnered with for finals stacked ~12 cones onto a mobile goal and put it into the 10 zone while we got the other goals into the 20 and 10. It worked really well for us.
speed definitely for now… honestly saying, the essential thing for a vex robot right now is to get at least 3 mobile goals in like 30 sec, and reserve the remaining time for cones. Obviously being good at both is good, but well, if you got to choose one, just go with speed
Later, when all or most of the cones are being stacked, and we are likely seeing only one cone on mobile goals in the 20-point zone from autonomous (who is going to fish that back out for a 5-point bonus!?!), stack height is going to matter. The stationary goal already starts out higher, so take the highest number you can stack on a mobile goal, multiply it by 4, and subtract the number of cones that consist the starting height of the stationary goal (since you cannot stack as many on it). That is the maximum number of cones your alliance can stack. If you want to ensure a win in most late-season matches, it probably has to be around 45. Thus, getting stacks of about 12 or 13 at least is crucial, and you may not want to go across the field to put an extra cone or two on a stack that is slightly below your max height, so you want some leeway in being able to stack higher than that on the more convenient goals. But, for right now, that doesn’t matter much; no alliance is stacking 45 cones in a match. Or if they are, I want to see that video.
Here is a thought. Forget about the autonomous bonus and just stack cones un auton. If you can stack a total of 48 cones (11 on each mogo and 4 on the stationary goal) and can score one mogo in the 20 and the other three in the 10 point zone, without any bonuses for your alliance and with the other alliance winning every single bonus, you still win by 3 points without even parking.
If both of your robots park, you only need 47 cones and you win by 3 points. If only one of you parks, you need 47 cones and you win by 1 point.
I think we are in agreement that speed wins the game.
You still need to stack over 10 high. Besides, getting 48 cones while your opponent only gets 32 is unrealistic in high-level play. Giving up the autonomous bonus by neglecting to score a 20-point mobile goal gives only a slightly advantage in being able to stack more cones; to win with this strategy, you must be much better than your opponents to eke out a win. That’s why it’s a bad strategy. If the question is “speed or height?” as so often is this case in robotics, the answer is “both.”
During the early to midseason, the speed of stacking will most likely trump the number of cones in a stack, but in the time about 3-4 months before worlds (January, February-ish) that may change. In Maine that is certainly the case. Stacking 5 cones on a mobile goal will almost guarantee you that highest stack bonus but as people develop their robots more, height will matter. Assuming everyone has a mobile goal lift, you can easily beat out your opponent with the highest stacks, and the height of the maximum highest stack will only increase with time. If you can both get the mobile goal into the far zone and they can’t stack as high as you can, you only have to stack one more than they do to get the stack bonus. If they are faster with their stacking speed, they might not have to stack as high because you won’t be to catch up. The key is to develop both.
I understand. Not scoring a mobile goal in the 20-point zone would make it way harder than it already is. But giving up the autonomous bonus to get a few cones ahead (when you need to score a mogo in the 20-point zone anyway, so that’s not useless) is already bad enough. What for? A 5-point bonus? You gave up the 10-point autonomous bonus. The need to not stack as high? It’s hard to see how that would give so much leeway in robot design as to be worthwhile, compared to stacking a little higher.
I think the best solution to this whole stack cones or get an mg in the 20 point zone is to use fluid programming to stack cones as you drive towards the 20 pt zone.
It’s certainly prudent to stack at least one cone on the mobile goal before placing it in the 20-point zone, and very doable to stack two on it first. Three is the most I see being stacked on a mobile goal that is to be placed in the 20-point zone during autonomous.
I think that when worlds comes around it will be like nothing but net and people will be sacrificing the auton bonus so that they can be ahead of the other alliance in cones. The points for the goals will be there until the end of the match, where as the cones may all be gone by the end of the match.
You have to remember though, you’re only losing about one, maybe two cones by scoring an mg but gaining 10 points. Also, if your opponent scores an mg, not only have you lost a potential ten points if you could have won, you just gave them points, meaning that you are at a 20 point deficit compared to if you had used a different strategy. Two cones is not worth that.
