Does anyone have any refining information on G13. I know the basic rule is
“Don’t destroy other Robots. But, be prepared to encounter defense. Strategies aimed solely at the destruction, damage, tipping over, or Entanglement of opposing Robots are not part of the ethos of the VEX V5 Robotics Competition and are not allowed.”
I need to know what specifically isn’t or is allowed. When I say this I mean things like pushing, pulling, flipping, pinning. Anything like this. Thank you.
G13 is the comprehensive answer to your question. There is no specific list of actions that are allowed or prohibited, so long as the actions follow G13.
The head ref must make reasonable conclusions when faced with dynamic action as to whether an action is intentionally destructive. You can push aggressively and that push might result in an opponent tipping over. This could be legal defense. However, if it is clear that you assisted the tip by pushing to tilt the opponent, then extended an arm to ensure a tip, that could be an illegal defense.
You should ask a referee in the driver meeting or after an interaction they rule illegal defense to explain how an action is a G13 violation.
G13 is the total answer – head referees must assess interactions in the real world. It would be impossible to make a brief rule that covers all possibilities given the giant set of possible robots and the giant set of how opponents might interact.
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If it is not explicitly banned in the manual or q&a, then it is legal. Use the search function (ctrl+f) to search the manual for your answer.
Pushing - not specified or banned explicitly, so it is legal. In fact, it is quite common.
Pulling - now this is a good example. Pulling is not explicitly banned in the manual, so it is legal. However, pulling involves latching on to your opponent’s robot, which involves a mechanism to do entangle, which according to G13 is illegal.
Flipping - Incidental flipping was very common during Over Under. The rules regarding this is that accidental tipping is legal (G13b), but intentional flipping or designing mechanisms to flip robots was illegal (G13). It is likely this will apply to high stakes - although incidental flipping should be rare this year.
Pinning - this is very explicitly outlined in the game manual. See rule G16
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Just to build on this answer, in the past, there have been (and probably continue) differences between states (and refs) about how aggressive defense can be. I would say (with less direct knowledge of FTC and FRC) that in general, V5RC matches have more robot-on-robot physical contact than either of the FIRST competition formats.
I had to chuckle last year at Kalahari during the Coaches meeting where a question about “how much defense is allowed” was brought up. John Queen’s (the head ref) response was “Welcome to Ohio, where we tend to allow more interaction” or somesuch.
This year in particular, with corner camping, expect to see robots ram into the camper to try to dislodge them or make a mistake.
There have been several Signature Events already this year, and livestreams are required, most of which are on YouTube. Watch a few of those Elimination matches to get a sense for what to expect for robot-on-robot interactions.
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John Queen is awesome. His daughter used to go to our high school, and he was at our schools competition last Saturday.
What about pushing them onto those angled pieces underneath the ladder to jam them?
That is a good question…
From where it stands now, it isn’t tipping, nor is it entanglement. Therefore, it is legal.
However, I can see some refs interpreting this as egregious defensive behavior in rare cases, so just be wary.
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To be clear, it would depend on the situation. Pushing a robot into the ladder could become a pin, depending on the circumstances. Pushing a robot so that it gets high-centered on a field element (ring or feet of the ladder) could be legal or illegal depending on how it is done.
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John Queen is the official mascot of us Ohio teams, he and the 2011 teams are the only reason anyone cares about us
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