Pig pen is well known within their region. And I think they have done well enough to be known everywhere once or twice. I however don’t remember ever seeing them having a big impact on teams the way 8059 and 8066 do.
For months every year the Singapore videos and reveals are all anyone watches and talks about. They give everyone a taste of what a good team can do in the new game with little time.
People would also hate that FTC does top 4 for alliance selection, and they do 3 team alliances.
And they’re going to hate seeing how they’re the unwanted stepchild at FIRST Worlds due to the looming giant that is FTC. Only 320 teams between both championships, and the advancement criteria leave a lot to be desired.
FTC is pay to win. So it’s not a good example of “amazing fair competition where best teams win”
I agree.
As @Anomaly has pointed several times, there have been many very good teams and very good students who quit VEX after last year (and many more who will do so this year) as a direct result of Bo1 and the elimination of the World Skills Top 35, and it looks like two of the three best VEX organizations in Singapore will leave VEX after this year due to the latter change.
Some of them might have been too hasty when they decided to quit, but I’m sure the same is true for many of the teams who quit because they feel they have no chance of winning.
Edited to add (after reply): Now yes, these teams don’t seem to be quitting in droves, and I don’t know what percentage these students make of the best teams in the region or the world (I’m sure it’s very low worldwide), but many of them have had influence well beyond their teams (whether by directly encouraging others in their region to get involved in VEX, or by being a team who many look up to online).
gotta say. who cares?
so a few teams that had fame on youtube left? so?
did vex collapse when Green Eggs left the game? (this is who we idolized in highschool)
nope. sure didnt.
Let’s say that Pig Pen wins a world title this year, are you saying that doesn’t impact growth in Indiana. What about the teams that join VEX and aspire to win a world title themselves because they saw what Pig Pen accomplished. The impact of any one team can compound beyond comprehension. If you don’t know who 8066 or 8069 are, then this will likely be a moot point.
There is a difference between aging out and moving on, and publicly voicing your opinions, being told you don’t matter and then leaving the competition entirely due to discouraging policies.
I give it a greater than zero but not much. Our state had a world champion and she immediately retired. She’s one of my favorite people on in the indaian vex scene and I am friends with several members of the family, but it effected next to no one. If anything her leaving the competition scene to coach a IQ team and volunteer for events has been a net positive to the region.
We have over 1000 IQ teams, if 6842Z and the 574’s both up and quit tomorrow it would not effect our growth even slightly.
My comment was meant mostly tongue-in-cheek.
My understanding is VEX formed as a result of people mostly liking FIRST (FTC/FRC not really sure) but wanting a slightly different take on it.
In theory, nothing is preventing those so upset with VEX from striking out on their own and creating their own robotics competition with rules they think are best.
Look, I might not like all the rules of VEX much like I think that the Safety in American Football needs to be rewarded with far more points. But I think its the best program for my kids, warts and all.
When I saw this thread title, I thought, “Oh, let’s not.”
Smart. We’re going nowhere fast!
No, rather, I think that IS the point.
Anything relying on a cult-of-personality of a few people/teams for growth won’t be sustainable.
Any while my comment was intended tongue-in-cheek, it does sound an awful lot like those complaining about BO3 and Skills are those who want to “find the best robot”. I would posit that any competition to “find the best robot”, by definition, is pay-to-win.
Social media influencers would beg to differ. If you honestly believe that brand image (both for VEX and teams) doesn’t matter, there’s nothing I can say to convince you otherwise.
What does some obscure team in the pacific have anything to do with branding?
I feel like I’ve already sufficiently explained how.
I agree.
When a team graduates, they still appreciate VEX. Some of them may leave VEX entirely and pursue other opportunities, but others, if they have time, will stick around and mentor younger VEX teams, whether in person or on the forum. (People who have done this include DRow, @TheColdedge, @Robo_Eng13, @tabor473, @aaronlucas, and even me.)
With Bo1 and the Skills changes, however, it sounds like many teams (not 8059 or 8066, but probably some of the California teams) have lost faith in VEX entirely, and feel that it isn’t worth it to encourage more people to participate.
There are still many ways they can (and should) encourage others to get involved in STEM, but this would not be with VEX, and they may find it hard to find a new organization to replace VEX in their outreach.
Do they show up in company documentation?
It’s work to win? Or learn to win?
Which is pretty different than pay to win. And when you try to teach students a new concept like PID you can say “this is what the good teams do to win”. The competition should be designed such that when students strive to win, they learn and grow as much as possible.
Okay, and how exactly does this system currently NOT do that?
What happens to 574C’s puncher tutorial then? It was a big contribution this year. Also 8059’s Singvex reveals as well as 62A’s RI3ds, in my case, have taught me a lot about design, build quality, and robotics in general. If it weren’t for these “elite” teams that I’ve seen in person working, as well as their reveals, and in some cases even being taught by them, I don’t know where I would be right now. Not wanting to argue, just want to show my appreciation for these teams.