Response to "Hanging Assistance"

[536Mentor]

I am not Karthik, but I am a trained referee and an event partner for over 10 years. The answers to your questions are:

Hi Karthik. According to G5, “During a Match, the Drive Team Members must remain in their Alliance Station.” However, the hanging poles are opposite from the driver stations. A friend of mine had the idea to have someone skype call the driver on their phones and stand next to the hanging bar, allowing the driver to line up faster. Thus, is it legal for
A.) an adult who isn’t part of the drive team to skype call the driver while standing near the hanging bar?
NO
B.) a student who isn’t part of the drive team to do the same?
NO
C.) a student who is part of the drive team to do the same?
NO
D.) a person from another team or who isn’t affiliated with any team to do the same?
NO
E.) any person to mount the phone on a stand prior to the start of the match, and then leave this area, leaving the phone and stand behind?
NO
F.) any person not on the drive team to stand several feet behind the hanging pole and zoom in, giving the driver the same view? NO

Sorry there are so many questions, and thank you for your time!

There has been a long standing unwritten rule regarding wireless communication from non-drive team to the drive team. This obviously hasn’t prevented a lot of from the stands coaching. However, the expectation, in this case, is that you as the drive team are responsible for lining up the robot. It is true for ALL teams.

Note: Karthik’s response in this thread.

[Mystical_Pie]

there have always been rules against communication to drive team members from outside the drive team.

[lacsap]

I would look at this in the following way - a person (driver, non-driver, or adult) who is acting to direct the drive team’s actions from outside the alliance station is acting as if they were part of the drive team and as such is violating the rule that the drive team must be in the alliance station. Add to that maybe causing the driver team number count to go above the 3 and adults not being permitted on the driver team.

As an EP, I would expect referees to warn the drive team about the inappropriate action before it becomes match effecting and could result in penalties to the team. VRC is a student-centered competition and the referees will help students work through problems they encounter during matches.

[anon50541363]

@lacsap

I would look at this in the following way - a person (driver, non-driver, or adult) who is acting to direct the drive team’s actions from outside the alliance station is acting as if they were part of the drive team and as such is violating the rule that the drive team must be in the alliance station. Add to that maybe causing the driver team number count to go above the 3 and adults not being permitted on the driver team.

As an EP, I would expect referees to warn the drive team about the inappropriate action before it becomes match effecting and could result in penalties to the team. VRC is a student-centered competition and the referees will help students work through problems they encounter during matches.

what about if the person/student is in the driver team and in the zone and just zooming in

[lacsap]

@vex2.0

what about if the person/student is in the driver team and in the zone and just zooming in

Interesting question, like using laser pointers to line up for NbN? I have no problem with technology aid to vision. Opera glasses would be fun to see at an event

My point was only focused on people outside the alliance station acting as part of the driving team.

[roboticblackbelt]

@lacsap

like using laser pointers to line up for NbN?

I though laser pointers were only allowed before the match started and not during it? But I think that if the drive team has binoculars it would be fine, although it would only help with zoom not angle.

[lacsap]

@roboticblackbelt

I though laser pointers were only allowed before the match started and not during it? But I think that if the drive team has binoculars it would be fine, although it would only help with zoom not angle.

Correct.

You could put sighting guides on your robot to assist with the alignment. (You have been there and done that!)

[reid_m]

Most of your issues could be resolved if you built a guide for your hang

[JpgeyCIgjQumPfrUmpb]

@reid_m

Most of your issues could be resolved if you built a guide for your hang

I think your advice is definitely worthy of consideration considering you currently have the 9th highest skills score in the world and are only 6 points off the highest skills score in the world. Congratulations.

[blatwell]

@Elohssa beat me to it. Congratulations @reid_m on the great skills score.

Your team is the 1st team on our wait list for our tournament 1/28 and I will know for sure, but it looks like I will be adding you at the end of the week. I am looking forward to seeing your team and robot again.

[reid_m]

Thanks both of you!

[536Mentor]

@Infinity Minus 1

Thank you for the response. No offense, but I can’t really see why Karthik would make a ruling based on a rule that isn’t part of the game manual. If Karthik and whoever else wrote the manual decided that wireless communication was illegal no matter what, that would have been a rule. The VexU question is very different from my question because that was referring to a piece mounted on the robot itself, which is illegal unless it is a non-functional decoration. (There is a clear rule for that in the manual.) In any case, there is definitely ambiguity, and it could theoretically create a safety concern, which is why I asked the question.

No offense was taken, however I refer you to Karthik’s official response. Here