Robot lifting made the difference!

At a regional MS competition qualifying for the state tournament the winning alliance made it through the elimination rounds because of the lifter bot on their alliance. They consistently lifted with a low lift, and got the high lift when paired with their other (smaller) alliance partner. The crowd was on the edge of their seats to see the lift, especially the first couple of times the robot lifted. It was a lot of fun to watch.

What competition was this?

Grandville Holiday VEX Tournament (Middle School Division)
by “regional MS competition” I mean a small local event (32 teams), not a super regional tournament that you need to qualify for.

There was a 45 team HS tournament going on at the same time at this event. It was a blast, lot’s of runs for all of the robots, it’s a really well-run tournament.

We just had a competition this weekend and there were 2 robots capable of low lifting their partners. It wasn’t until the elimination rounds that either was able to successfully complete an elevation, but when they did it was exciting. The crowd really enjoyed it and in one particular match, (out of 3 elevations total), the elevation determined the winner.

First of all - great job with the lifting!

Totally agree that some how that elevation movement really gets the crowd cheering!

Trying to do some meta-gaming here - Were the matches high scoring matches? I am trying to see if it is possible to offset elevation bonus by having a real high and fast scoring alliance.

It will if both team have the same strength
I can’t talk a lot but, check VEX DB for high scores matches Blue had lift but didnt work at the match

Awesome job at the competition!
I saw the results. Go middle school power!!! Can the robot lift and shoot because there is not that many middle school teams that can lift and shoot. We can lift and shoot, but I am interested in yours.

That’s for sure.

But the way I see things so far is that - the high lift will come in the expense of other capabilities or efficiency.
eg. in order to lift, you will need to put at least 2 motors there. and that means slower moving robot or not as efficient intake or launching system.
And I know there are teams doing transmission as well, so that they can lift and shoot, etc. But like it or not, transmission normally means using pneumatics. And that means “sacrificing” 2 motors.

What I am still trying to figure out is that, what is the best trade off or combination?
And that’s where meta-gaming comes in.

My main point or question is - if I can’t do lifting, how much faster or better must I be able to shoot the balls, in order to win?
And vice-versa as well - if I can lift, how much slower or inefficient can i tolerate (in terms of shooting) in order to still win the match?

In our tournament the scores were relatively low. Something like 143 was the high score for this alliance. Some matches the alliance was winning with 100+ points.

The lift takes 4 motors right now, so there is no intake. It does have a 3 motor shooting they are still working out the bugs on. They are at the max 12 motors right now. If they replace two lift motors with pre-tensioned rubber bands they could easily move those motors to an intake.

They have a holonomic drive, I wouldn’t recommend that… it takes 4 motors and 4 ports! It’s also a drive that has a lot of driving friction on what needs to be a really heavy robot.

Another lift pic…

Well couldn’t you just use a passive transmission on something like a flywheel that only ever rotates in one direction to get an entire four motors worth of power to lift someone. Even if you can only get one motors worth of forward rotation you could still use it to deploy a ramp or some other elastic powered lifting device without sacrificing any motors.

One of our teams doesn’t have a very efficient intake but can shoot all 24 driver loads (making 20-24) and can lift a good amount of robots. I think this is a very good combo for our region because it could be paired with a small catapult robot (which it was this past weekend) and the catapult is a great field robot. They could score 200 if the match goes well for them (moderate to little defense)

Some sort of passive planetary transmission?
Well, it is possible, but it will take up space (and space is a premium for this season) and not to mention the extra friction involved.
And will the extra space required comes in the expense of space for maybe the intake system?

And as for “squeezing” one motor out just to deploy a ramp or lifting device, then are we also compromising on the efficiency and effectiveness of the lifting mechanism?

As for the purely elastic powered lifting mechanism, I can imagine the amount of rubber bands required to lift a robot. And with that amount of rubber bands involved, think the robot being lifted will be some what thrown up a bit before landing on the lifting platform… not sure I would want my robot to be lifted this way.

But this is what I mean - it is a fixed pie… something will have to give way or compromised. So it is about figuring out what is the best way to distribute the pie.

This is what I mean - you may not be able to do well in everything. But it is about figuring out what is the best combination for you to maximise your winning margin :slight_smile:

Oh yeah, and HOORAY for the 4th ranked alliance beating the 1st and 2nd ranked alliances! :slight_smile:

The field will be cleared with 55 secs to spear. So its not really how much faster you need since there is no balls on the field

Yes, but the faster you score field balls, the less that are available for the opposing alliance.