Robot Lifting?

My robot can shoot and lift. It works with most robots but I am worried that there will be a robot that slips off or gets pushed by an our opponent which would damage their robot. A team at one of our tournaments told us that their robot was shot by their opponent while lifting (I don’t know if that’s true =S). Would we get disqualified if we damage our alliance x_x ?

No you won’t get disqualified for damaging your alliance unless you do it intentionally. There is always an inherit risk or tipping when lifting you just have to plan around it.

They can’t legally push you off because they are not allowed in the climbing zone in the last 30 seconds. As for being shot off using a ball, I believe that it’s going to be improbable.

I did visit this topic because one of the teams at our school was only hanging off the ramp since he couldn’t get up all the way and I thought about it but then I thought about rule G1 and that kinda ruled it out

We do not tip because our robot is like 35 pounds! We had a problem where our alliance could not grip our lift enough therefore; they would slip off. Sometimes they aren’t very good drivers so they drive up crookedly and the wheel sticks out and then its not a high lift -_-.

Our lift sticks out a little beyond the triangle.

Which triangle?

Because that could be illegal per SG-10 as you can only expand so that you are fully inside the loading+climbing zone

[attachment:5680438b698bb] The red is where the opponent cannot enter (the triangle). The blue is the whole lifting/climbing zone. Our lift sticks out a little bit out of “the triangle”, which makes it easy for the opponents to bump our alliance.

It would be illegal per SG10 to go beyond the blue lines you drew

Its sloppy I know. I used snipping tool so I could mark it faster. We do not go beyond the blue lines.

So does your robot go beyond the Blue lines? While lifting


So no-one can touch you without it being illegal as you are not sticking out of the climbing zone

The referees don’t begin the countdown for some reason. At a competition, a team was blocking us from the lifting zone, but our base was stronger so we just pushed through. Then they pinned us for 15 seconds and the reffs said it was not intentional but gave the team a warning. Then after finals, our opponents were claiming we were pinning them.

Then those referees were not great. One reason we get 3 drive team members is so we can have 1-2 drivers, and a coach. My team uses one driver, so we have another person for driver loads, and when we are playing the field, watching everything happening in the field to tell the driver where to go and what to do, and the last person watches our robot and our alliance partner to watch for rules violations on both sides. The Vex scoring app’s manual also comes in handy very frequently. If you had shown the refs the definition of pinning, and the rule implementing the five second count, the refs would probably have done something, especially if you pointed out the pin your opponent had you in for way longer than allowed as it was happening. I’ve been on both sides of that situation before, and refs generally do a good job with adjusting their rulings as they learn about rule changes and Karthik’s Q&A interpretations.
On a side note, does anyone have a preferred method of checking a high elevation? I have seen refs use laser pointers and rulers. Both methods seem like they would need a level, since they rely on the top of the field wall being parallel to the ground, and the field walls are not hard to flex, which makes the top not parallel to the ground.

That’s a clever strategy. We should have a member looking at rule violations.

You can always get disqualified if you try hard enough. You won’t get disqualified if you damage your own alliance because a disqualification requires something to be match affecting (referee training videos), unless of course you break a safety rule.

So in general, use common sense, lift as you normally do, and don’t do anything stupid like intentionally raising your alliance partner and dump them off the field. If someone has an argument, obtain more information about what instance they are talking about, because damage is very general.

It annoys me when people make opinions about refs when insufficient information was given. Especially when contrasting information is given, and when pinning is one of the most misjudged scenarios throughout vex history.

For example, if your base was stronger and successfully pushed them through, How could you be pinned for a full 15 seconds if you could just push yourself out of the way? Not to mention, if you are getting to the elevation zone, successfully pushed them away, and are in the elevation zone for a lift (last 30 sec im assuming), or possibly in the loading zone for preloads, how could you be pinned when your opponents aren’t even supposed to be in the zone? Most drivebases would overheat at 8 seconds of pushing anyways. If you were referring to a countdown from entering the lifting zone, there is no countdown that exists.

Even if we knew all the information, there’s no point in debating it because we would have to see it in person before making our judgement. As a referee though, I’m obviously biased

Referring to <g14>. Lasers, Rulers, and even Eyeing it would provide an acceptable accuracy in height because the field itself has a large tolerance. (note this is my own interpretation, so a Q&A would be a better response)

We did not want to damage our opponent. When we pushed them the first time, we pushed their side . When we were being pinned, they were pushing us with their front which had the cortex attached to it unprotected. If we pushed them, we would have damaged it. (Our net had way more balls in it so we kind of didn’t care).

The countdown when one robot from the opposing alliance is touching another robot.