Robotevents has no business knowing my biological sex.
Like actually, please tell me why the robotics competition needs to know this information.
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it defidentaly should not be mandatory, but,
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Collecting information on gender identity is fine, and it makes total sense why RECF requests that. @meng suggested changing the form to request information on students’ biological sex instead in order to “”“avoid”“” this “”“issue”“” entirely, which I objected to. That is private information which the RECF has no need nor right to know (and I’d argue the same for the team coach filling out the form).
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Doesn’t these 2 statements of yours contradict?
So you are saying, it is ok to reveal the gender but not the biological sex?
I can’t see the logic behind it.
I guess it all depends on RECF what they think it is relevant for them?
And my suggestion is based on what that are currently available for selection in the form, i.e. Male and Female.
So I am presuming they are looking at biological sex and not gender.
But one thing we can all agree upon is that the amount of personal data collected is a bit too much… especially when we have no idea how secured is the data server(s) used.
Edit:
PS - Honestly it doesn’t matter to me whether REC want to collect the gender or the sex info.
I am just trying to help REC use the correct terms… and that’s if their intention is really to collect the biological sex.
Yes. Gathering demographic information such as gender is a perfectly fine thing for an organization to do (provided it’s done in an inclusive manner).
Also yes. If there was a reason that the RECF needed to know that, I would be quite concerned.
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Mind sharing why is it a concern to gather data based on biological sex? But not gender?
Edit: Biological sex has always been one way to classify the demographic as well.
I suggest a social experiment: go around your school campus and ask all the kids what sex organs they have. I’m curious how this will turn out.
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The way you phrase you question is interesting. you could say:
This is correct and in no wrong. But I think it is a poor way to phrase the question. I personally think there is a better more (I am not sure on the word) “moderate” and less aggressive way to ask the question. Something along the lines of “What is your biological sex?”. This could easily be a learning opportunity for people who don’t really understand the difference between gender and biological sex.
Ofc I don’t think the RECF needs that data really, and the concerns that are brought up here are valid.
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(A question that will make anyone who isn’t cisgender go away and refuse to talk to you)
I come from a very inclusive private school. For me personally and from my experiences if I were to ask this question the outcome that you says:
would not really happen. I understand that I do live in a little bubble and my experiences seem to contradict yours.
And so we are back at where we started is this a question that we should ask? Is it “bad” that people will “go away and refuse to talk to you” because you ask a more inclusive/specific question. Is this outcome something that should change? How does this unite or divide gender from biological sex? What are the effects of not asking this question in the discussion of gender?
Food for thought. Now I need to channel this writing energy into an essay.
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oh @Sylvie … I hope you are not offended by me.
I am genuinely enjoying the discussion so far.
And i do think this is a very good lesson (for all of us) on cultural differences.
So when i asked you to explain or to share - I was really genuinely trying to learn and find out more 
In Asia, generally we are ok with revealing our biological sex. Because to us - it is not a fact that needs to be hidden. If we are bornt as male or female or intersex, then it is as it is.
But in our culture, we are a lot more sensitive in revealing our gender orientations.
In our Asian culture, there are still a lot of social expectations and pressures if we don’t conform to certain “standards”… including our gender orientations.
In fact, there are some countries that still have definition of what is a nucleus family unit and laws against certain forms of relationships, etc.
So that’s the main reason why in Asia, generally we are more sensitive in revealing our gender orientations but not our biological sex.
And to answer your question - no… in Asia, most of the time there isn’t any need to go around to ask about their biological sex, because you can tell just by looking at the person’s outward appearances (another example of societal expectations) - so that’s the reason why we don’t see it a big deal in putting in our biological sex when filling in forms.
Things are changing in Asia… but I do think it will take at least another 5 to 10yrs before we can truly reach gender neutrality.
And back to this point.
Many stats websites used biological sex as a way to classify the demographics.
e.g - UN - http://uis.unesco.org/
So REC is not wrong if they chose to collect the biological sex info as well. It is their decision.
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That’s fair, and I apologize for any misunderstanding. Your point there makes some sense, yes, but for what (I think) the RECF is trying to do with this information, asking about gender is probably the better option.
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I feel you may have missed the rest of the quote. If you apply some common sense, it can be found that Total - Male - Female leaves you with the number of nonbinary students, meaning that they are in fact represented. Thanks for the comment though!
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Technically? Yes.
Represented? No.
If A + B + C = D and you ask for the values of A, B, and D, yes, you can extrapolate the value of C, but you are very clearly not considering C important to the same level as A and B.
I don’t want to be perceived as the difference between two things, I want to be counted.
Yes, they are being statistically represented BUT in this case you effectively ignoring their existence by not asking specify that they are there. It implies that you aren’t caring to look at them. Now as vex is a robotics engineering community foremost the analysis that people of non male or female is simply the total - male - female fits the stereotype of just do the math and figure it out. Statistics and statistical representation without the upfront recognition is what effectively publicly ignoring that group.
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@QuickFang When you click “Register yourself for this event” it is there (while retrying on a different event since the auton event is closed now)
I just noticed the game manual not being gender-neutral the other day, and I thought it was kind of interesting. For a foundation that’s based around robotics, something that, in this context, is highly modern, and is engaging youth in STEM, it seems a bit odd that this wouldn’t’ve happened sooner, seeing as this has been quite a big issue in recent years.
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on the contrary lack of inclusion is a really huge part of the tech industry at a cultural level. I am going to broaden this idea a bit to Diversity and Inclusion.
Silicon Vally was and arguably to some extent still is basically a bunch of often white guys hanging out creating tech start ups. People in tech ended up hiring people like themself which created a very interesting bubble of a group of people without much diversity.
interesting articles
I do get most of my articles for Technology review so for the context of this:
What’s missing from the push to diversify tech | MIT Technology Review
Why it’s so hard to make tech more diverse | MIT Technology Review
Nicki Washington on how tackling tech’s diversity challenges can spur innovation | MIT Technology Review
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The way a good business hires people is that people are hired on skill, and drive to learn alone.
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