<RSC5> loophole

Here is the full < G17 > , emphasis mine:

< G17 > Handling the Robot mid-match is allowed under certain circumstances. If a Robot goes completely outside the playing Field, gets stuck, tips over, or otherwise requires assistance, the Team’s Drivers may retrieve & reset the Robot. To do so, they must:
a. Signal the Head Referee by placing their VEX IQ Controller on the ground.
b. Move the Robot to any legal Starting Position.
c. Any Game Object being controlled by the Robot while being handled must be removed from the Robot and gently placed in a non-Scored position by the Team.
d. Any Game Objects in the Starting Position may be moved out of the Starting Position and gently placed into a non-Scored position by the Team.
This rule is intended so Teams can fix damaged Robots or help get their Robots “out of trouble.” It is not intended for Teams to use as part of a strategy to gain an advantage during a Match, including via moving Game Objects per parts c and d above. If a Head Referee sees Teams strategically exploiting this rule, they may be Disqualified from said Match.

< RSC5 > overrides part of < G17 > for programming, but not all of it. The bolded portion still applies. Sorry for any confusion I may have caused.

I still think some clarity is needed as to where the cube should go during a normal reset of the robot, if there ever should be such a thing. It would be advantageous for the team to put it back in its original position… Would that be OK?

For example, a team is going to score the green cube on the platform and it gets off course. The team then resets the bot before it drops the cube. Could they put it the green cube back into its original position to give it another go?

I updated my question to include this scenario.

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Agree. My interpretation would be that it is placed in a non scoring position directly where the robot was retrieved from. Clarification would be good.

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I was under impression that G* applies to driver skills matches, not to robot skills matches. Or am I wrong? G17 explicitly prohibits strategically moving game objects, but is/will there be a similar clause in RSC?

You’d have to seek official clarification via the Q&A, we can only speculate based on our own interpretation of the rules.
@sankeydd has posted such a question and it’s still awaiting an answer at the moment.

image

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W[quote=“calvc01, post:22, topic:68613”]
You’d have to seek official clarification via the Q&A, we can only speculate based on our own interpretation of the rules.
[/quote]

Well, it’s official: “… legal within RSC5, which supersedes G17 for Programming Skills Matches”. So one way to exploit this would be to have the bot pick up a cube, take the robot to the other starting position, place the cube in front of the nearest scoring area, have the bot push the cube into the scoring area, and repeat! <Sarcasm mode="off">

I’m sure no one cares, but I think that is the wrong decision regarding the red and blue cubes

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You already have teams programming to carry cubes across the field… Back to the drawing board.

I did not see this coming… It’s generally inconsistent with where I thought they were going.

One of my kids who took a board home already emailed me about this. It will make the front two cubes super easy but the back two will still be tricky. Refs will initially be confused…

I agree with you 100%… But this is what we have. I have disagreed with a couple of decisions this year, but once it is made that’s just the game.

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That’s a real surprise and definitely against the spirit of the program. It’s a shame to my mind and I won’t be encouraging any of the teams I mentor to use that strategy, but at least we are now informed.

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Extrapolating, it can also make the high green platform a little easier… get the middle green cube… reset the robot… place the green cube in front of the robot with it rotated so that the cross is now available to claw without having to flip the cube in programming and find it… score the high platform

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That’s interesting… I already posted another question to the Q&A: Can they reset the cube on top of balls?

https://www.robotevents.com/VIQC/2019-2020/QA/392

:joy: RSC5 b is ambiguous. The cube can’t be placed as scored but it doesn’t state that a different object can’t become scored as a result of placing the cube. I’m hoping you can’t place it over a ball but we’ll wait to see!

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I really wish they would have just said, put the scoring object back where it started

I posted this to a couple of Facebook groups. Everyone’s going nuts.

We’ll see where it goes.

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Yeah, I wish this would have been the programming skills rules.

I’m a bit torn about the ruling. On one hand, I felt previous seasons’ rule where an object that was being touched/held by the robot when the robot was touched by a student had to be taken out of play. That made programming skills very unforgiving. But, RSC5 as it stands now swings the pendulum really far to the other side almost to the point where it now becomes who’s the most clever in figuring out how to manipulate an outcome.

The best option in my mind would have the element placed back to its original starting position (I know it’s difficult for the balls) and let the student take another pass at it.

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For younger kids the cubes would have been tough as well. This makes it easy for the kids and refs, it just has to be not scored.

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I am very disappointed in this ruling. It should be, any object touching the robot when it is reset should just be placed right where it is or as close to where it was. In my opinion, moving cubes all the way across the field to the closest scoring position isn’t teaching the kids anything other than to exploit loopholes. I really hope this gets changed.

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I’m not sure how this would work for the sake of the referees. How close is close enough? So the rule would have to be either to remove it from the field or the kids can put it wherever they want.

The issue only really affects cubes and they could have been placed back on their respective positions at the start of a match to avoid any confusion. Balls could have been placed anywhere on the field since there is no real advantage to placing them close to the robot or anywhere else on the field.

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I posted the following additional questions:

https://www.robotevents.com/VIQC/2019-2020/QA/434

  1. When a team resets a controlled cube to a non-scored position, can they place the cube on top of balls?
  2. In the process of placing the cube on top of a ball, can the students use the cube to move the ball?
  3. Can the students place the cube on top of a stack of preset balls?
  4. Does the cube need to be in place before the bot starts again in the case that two students are working together?
  5. Can the cube, after being removed from the robot, be placed back on the robot?
  6. When a blue or red cube is placed on the opposite side of the field, can it be placed between the other cube and the wall? It seems like there is enough room, but the students may move the other cube a little bit in the process.
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