# SG2 Clarification

Sorry if the answer is obvious, but I’m confused on this rule. So you can expand 36 inches, but the 36 inches is measured from opposite corners? So 36 inches from the back of your robot to the front is illegal, because corner to corner would be over 36?

Also what does it mean by “it does not rotate with the robot”?

Also, does this mean that there is no height limit?

Correct. The distance is measured from the 2 points on your robot that are furthest apart horizontally.

If you have a tall robot (say over 36”) that tips over, it will be in violation of SG2.

Yes.

6 Likes

Thank you!

I think what got me was that I considered “horizontal” to be length and width. But it seems that the rulebook uses it to mean “parallel with the floor”, which is fair.

A little scary though, because our robot barely fits within the 36 in limit front to back, so it definitely won’t fit diagonal to diagonal…

We haven’t been rejected before though, so I guess I’ll see how it goes.

Thanks again!

The 36" “point-to-point” limit means you can’t be more than 36" wide in any direction, effectively making the horizontal expansion limit a circle. It’s not measured “from opposite corners”; it’s just measured from the widest point on your robot, which, given a rectangular robot, happens to be corner-to-corner.

Edit: Not in practice. There are other weird shapes that follow the rule but do not fit in a 36" diameter circle.

This is referring to the height limit. Since there is no height limit, you could have a 50" tall robot, but if it fell over, would it be 50" tall or 50" wide? “It does not rotate with the robot” means that the sizing box does not rotate with the bot as it falls over, so once it’s fallen over, it’s 50" wide and violating the 36" rule.

1 Like

Close, but not quite. See this thread:

4 Likes

That is not exactly the case according to Q&A (last time I checked). No DQ for accidental tips.

1 Like

so now im confused when i went to worlds in iq i had 2 lifts on my robot and i was over sized ar full expansion but i was allowed to compete because i told the ref i only used one lift at a time which was true so he said i just have to do that in matches or else it was a dq.
in that case i had the 9 ring clamp in the front and i had a 3 ring Needell in the back i used the 9 ring till they were all scored put it all the way up and used my back lift but i see no Ruel like that for this. so what’s the deal because i have 3 arms rn and was planning to use the same logic.

do i just have to be mindfull of using all threeor i just have to rebuild?

I never said it would be automatically a DQ. From the Q&A you linked:

In many situations, a Robot which has tipped over does not affect or interfere with the Match to their advantage, and this violation would result in a warning. A Robot which has “accidentally tipped over” (with heavy “air quotes”) in a Match Affecting manner may receive a Disqualification at the Head Referee’s discretion.

A 50” robot tipping over violates SG2, whether it is intentional or incidental. Whether or not the violation is match affecting is a different matter.

5 Likes

My understanding is that you would need to be able to show the inspector that you had either a mechanical stop or solid programming stop that would actively prevent you from using both at the same time. It wouldn’t typically be acceptable that you just say you won’t do it. That’s what I’ve been told in the past, anyway!

3 Likes

hmm hadn’t thought of a programming stop ill try that thx

I’m sure there are mentors on here who have done inspections for Worlds in the past; hopefully one of them can chime in with their insights. As I recall from past discussions, mechanical stop is preferred - so hopefully someone can verify if programming stop is accepted.

1 Like

It is a rule violation, just not a dq, the violation just results in a warning.

1 Like

I’m not sure why a programming stop or even a “stop” that is simply the driver’s brain wouldn’t be accepted. The rule doesn’t say anything about being able to expand beyond 36”, only that you can’t actually do so. We don’t require robots to have mechanical or software locks to prevent SG3 violations, why would it be required to have one for SG2? Obviously it’s probably a good idea to have one, but you can’t prevent a robot from passing inspection just because it is technically capable of violating a rule.

5 Likes

Well, it does in IQ <R6c>

Or you could look in the (IQ) Game Manual.

Once the Match begins, Robots must not be capable of violating the 19” height limit set forth by <G5>. Teams may be requested to demonstrate any extendable Robot mechanisms during inspection, to ensure compliance with this limit. Software limitations are acceptable, for the purposes of this rule. [emphasis added]

2 Likes

Considering this is VRC, I’m not sure why VIQC rules would apply here.

7 Likes

Because Avonderweidt was confused about it:

But you’re right that VIQC rules wouldn’t apply.

So in SG2, it just says that you can’t pass 36 inches while playing, not that your robot can’t be able to pass 36 inches.

But the inspection sheet says that it can’t go over 36 inches, implying (to me at least), that the robot cannot be physically able to go over 36 inches (ignoring tipping over).

If we told the inspector that we’d never be in the position required to pass 36 inches (which is true), would they pass us?

Yes – what we typically do is measure every robot at inspection in the widest configuration physically possible, and if that configuration is over 36 inches wide, we’ll have a chat with the team to make sure they understand the rule and have some plan to not exceed 36 inches during the match, whether that’s a hardware/software lockout or just “we know not to extend both these arms at once and have been driving like that in practice”.

13 Likes