A new question on the Q&A appeared asking what a Referee/EP is to do when a robot continues to shoot disks after the match timer has ended the match. The challenge is then for the ref/EP to decide which disks to count for scoring and more significantly whether to adjust scoring based on disk position at the “end” of the match.versus at the end of game piece motion.
It appears, that some robot designs will shoot all the disks in its possession at one time (i.e. press a button, and the automatic firing of disks starts until the magazine is empty)
One way to reduce the likelihood of this situation is to require a trigger switch that the driver controls at all times, i.e. when the time goes off, the driver lets go of the trigger switch and the disks stop firing.
I highly doubt the GDC will change to rule to say, “All teams must have a button that must be pushed in order for the robot to respond to controller inputs.” I think it much more likely the GDC will say, “The VEX IQ Competition has always relied on the Referee to be the ultimate arbiter of whether a game object was moving before the match ended.”
In Pitching In, a rule I can’t find at the moment said, “The match will be scored after all Robots and Game Objects have come to rest.” So if you shot, the buzzer went off, then that ball landed in the High Goal, it counted in the High Goal. It was up to the ref and the teams to work out whether the ball was shot before or after the buzzer.
In fact you can shoot after the buzzer ends and it would count. I remember in turning point, WPI won their autons almost every match because they built a mechanism that shoots the catapult after the end of autonomous.
Note that this is about IQ, not VRC, so there is no controller disablement possible, so it truly comes down to human interaction during driver control (no match auton anyway).
What they are referring to here is robot motion. So any movement after the match that changes the score will attempt to be “undone” by the referee. This could get complicated if the shot changes the score of other objects, and would be hard to undo.
So, teams that shoot discs after the buzzer will be at the mercy of the head ref who will simply do their best to determine where they were before the shot after the buzzer.
However, in the greater IQ community, we still have a lot of questions like “does the match end at the beginning or the end of the buzzer?” I think the rule as written is clear but consistent implementation is going to be tricky.
Well the actual question was on if the disk scores after the buzzer it may move other disks, how will the EP track the disks if a case like that happens. Here is a image.
While reading this whole thread, I was waiting for someone to bring in the “judges.” We get close by bringing in the “Event Planner”. Well, unless this is a really small event where the EP is also the head referee, I can be pretty sure there will be no EP’s watching the discs when the buzzer goes off.
That’s already a hard no in both IQ and VRC manuals. I don’t see them changing it.
Personally I wouldn’t mind seeing more of a VexNet type setup for IQ (so that driver control is definitely cut off/bots disabled), but I realize that’s more cost /complexity to inject to IQ teams, which would then limit their spread.
Why would it have to be Gen 2? There’s an ethernet port in every IQ controller, Gen 1 and Gen 2. If it’s just used to disable the robot like VRC, it’s technically doable.
As head ref, where I’m not necessarily able to view the active field all the time, I would expect the following -
a. The disks are counted at rest. There is no going back to where the buzzer had them
b. The referee/head ref, are required to note the additional disks shot after the buzzer and remove them from the field
c. Then score the field.
Ahh, I stand corrected then. I agree then, Gen 2 foe the newer Bluetooth that should have the multi-point. Again, not feasible from the cost/complexity standpoint, but I’m allowed to dream.
So this has been an issue since the very first year. VIQ refs are used to dealing with it. Buzzer sounds and they watch for any activity. Then they score according to SC1.
No vexnet on the IQ controllers please. Not saying the elementary roboteers can’t figure it out, but as an Event Judge Partner Referee, messing with the control system would double my setup time for smaller events.
Yea, and that’s a non starter for the existing 9,000+ teams.
Not really in Delmarva, but the forum is full of roboteers that anguish over 5ms in a software loop, so the 750ms of the buzzer would seem like an eternity.
Foster isn’t in the Facebook groups. (And better for it…) It’s a good look into the “layperson” VEX IQ robotics community. Of course @kmmohn does his best and I jump in from time to time, but that level of question is pretty common. I feel like I’ve answered that particular question at least 4 times.
People post a lot of videos and a number of tournaments don’t use the correct driver stations, and other stuff like that. It’s eye opening!
Definitely understand that this would be an inherent issue with this as well. I’m just daydreaming, and this would really only be solving a corner-case in most matches anyway. Now, maybe for Worlds, starting with division finals and later…
