SingVex 2017

Hi…

Guess this might be one of the more anticipated posts for quite a number of you in the forum.

The dust has barely settled, and we are all trying to catch up with our sleep.
So I will just do a brief summary of the competition at the moment.

Robot Designs:

  • Mainly dr4b, followed by 4 and 6-bar, and there was a scissor lift (that also doubled up as some sort of blocker) and elevator lift. And there was one wallbot.

  • Mainly built as speed-reach robots, and there were 3 internal stackers (namely 8059D, F and Z).

Competition:

  • Slightly over-run… mainly due to the time taken to do the scoring and setting up the cones was quite a pain.

  • It took quite some time to check if the robots were touching any cones or mobile goals, etc before confirming the scores.

  • There were quite a few accidental DQs.
    Some examples…
    a) Some of the robots accidentally descored the opponent’s cones while trying to pick up a cone (that was near the opponent’s mobile goal) of their own;
    b) Cones dropped inside the robot and the drivers went on to pick up another cone before dislodging that stuck cone on the robot;
    c) Some teams played too aggressive defense and ended up either going into opponents’ protected zone or touched an opponent that was touching the starting bar
    etc…

  • Highest score by single alliance - 123 points by 8068G and 8059F during QF.

Some interesting observations:

  • Despite all the “non-contact” rules in place, there were still quite a fair bit of defense that was going on during matches, especially during the QF.
    There were quite a lot of contact at the centre of the field and also robots trying to push each other to prevent the opponents from stacking or picking up cones.
    The head referee spoke to the teams subsequently and the remaining teams held back slightly in terms of defense during SF and Finals.

  • It is really easy to just move towards your own mobile goals and the robots will pushed the cones (in the way) to the opponents’ mobile goals area, and it will make life a lot more difficult for the opponents to pick up their mobile goals.

  • For most matches (during early season), it will be mainly decided by how effective the teams are throwing the mobile goals into the zones.
    But the importance of highest stack bonus came in when both alliances are able to effectively throw in the mobile goals.

**
Fun Fact** - there was a photography agency that turned up during the last day and said they were employed by an american team (and yes - he told the security the name of the team/club) to take photos and video footage of the competition.
But the security needed to turn the photographer away - due to heighten security measures, and the competition was held in a school, we need to be careful.

Ok… will take a break from the updates.

1 Like

Will they be doing a reveal this year? Also, how did the wallbot do?

I was afraid this would happen. How much time would you estimate the field reset took on average?

This one stands out to me the most. I think this will end up being a big problem to enforce in competitions down the road.

Were most of the matches just mobile goals scored? How relevant would you say cones were in the elimination matches, also was the majority of that 123 score mobile goals?

lol

They will be. But they are still deciding on which robot designs to showcase.

As for the wallbot, if well-driven, it can be a very effective disruptive force. But the team need to be extra careful of not getting dq - which happened to them during the QF.

Edit: I want to add that a well designed and well driven speed-reach robot can be very effective during the match as well.
But internal stacker will have an advantage for the match loads and also during programming skills.

I didn’t really timed.
But with two field setters running around, it took about 2 to 3 minutes.
But trust me - sometimes the scoring can take longer than that.

There were cones stacked as well.
During qualifiers, only about half of the teams were able to score mobile goals effectively. So those teams were mainly just stacking cones on both mobile goals and stationary goals.
But during eliminations, since all the alliances were able to score mobile goals pretty fast, the stacking of goals and highest stack bonus became a lot more important.

As for the 123 point by the single alliance - nope… they built a pretty high stack on the stationary goal as well :slight_smile:

How did the internal stackers stack up (oh the puns!) against the rest?

How often and how quickly were mobile goals fully scored? And you said this was integral to match scores?

You said scoring takes super long, what part takes the longest?

To be clear I think he means calculating the score.

Thanks for the update! Yes, some of us have been hoping for just such an update.

Yes, as in, what part of calculating the score takes the longest? Mobile Goals? Cones? Highest Stack Bonus?

So how many cones, on average, did teams stack on mobile goals and stationary goals?

Will there be any videos posted of match play from the competition?

Why ask about average? I don’t care how many bad* teams there are, I want to know how good the good teams are.

*relatively speaking

The internal stackers did pretty well. One advantage of this design is that you have no worries of dropping the mobile goal once it is inside the robot.
But the intake of the mobile goal itself is definitely slower than just having a claw and pick it up.

I will do a summary of the awards and results later in the day.

During eliminations, basically all the mobile goals were inside the zones, except for those times when the opponents managed to play strong defense to stop the other alliance from intaking the mobile goals.
And once the mobile goals were in the zone, you will really need to rely on stacking to win.

Singapore VEX was a really good early-season competition. The 8068 teams has learnt lots of important lessons and might consider building 8059’s designs :wink: (if @meng doesn’t mind)

Most of 8068 robots used the same standard rd4b designs (but nonetheless all performed well). We will be doing a reveal in July so do look out for that!

Don’t just build our design… make it even better.
All of us know that the design is far from optimised. It can be better.

And I really think 8068 has some of the best speed-reach robots around. Especially the burst at the beginning of the match… it is crazy.

And honestly, I hope you guys dont totally abandon your speed-reach design.
Dont think the best combination is having 2 internal stackers together.

Thanks for the compliments :slight_smile: Of course, VEX is about designing something better than past robots. While we won’t abandon our old robots, we find your internal stackers very interesting.

See you guys the next time we have a scrimmage

It’s worrying to hear that DQs for accidental descoring are already happening. Hopefully this doesn’t become a big problem.
I need to go look at the scores still, but the update was informative—thanks for posting this

What do you mean by speed-reach? It sounds like robots that don’t carry around the mobile while stacking?

Yup. That’s how I see the 2 main approaches to this season game - the first approach is definitely what has been mentioned a lot… internal stacker, whereby the robot will pick up the mobile goal into it and move around with the mobile goal while stacking at the same time;
the 2nd approach will be to just speed around the field and collect cones and stack onto the goals. Speed-reach robot has the option of whether to dump an empty mobile goal into the zone first, and then stack, or stack a few cones and then grab the whole mobile goal (with the stacked cones) into the zones.

One great thing that came out of Singvex is that we have both internal stackers and speed-reach robots playing against each other and playing with each other. So it is great for us to make our own analysis of how the future development/evolution of the game will be :slight_smile:

And yes - I have just gotten clearance from the teams involved, meaning we should be able to upload the videos of the finals soon.

Another great news - 8068 has also decided to do a release of their wonderful speed-reach robots.
So looks like it is going to be a great buffet spread of reveals (from the tiny red dot) pretty soon :slight_smile:

First off… just want to say that the videos are uploaded with permission from the teams involved.
And secondly - sorry for the poor quality of videos. This is what I have at the moment. And let’s hope someone with a better quality video will upload it in the near future.

Some of the things to highight:

  • The teams were definitely playing much lesser defense than during the QF. Guess they were a lot more careful of not getting DQ in the finals.

  • You will also notice that the teams were a lot more careful in not getting into accidental DQ, eg. 8059Z shaking off the cone on their robot after autonomous, etc.

  • The teams were a lot better in their autonomous in the earlier matches.

In terms of general approach towards gameplay - there was a shift in the focus in the SF and F as compared to qualifiers.

During qualifiers, most teams priority was to dump as many of the empty mobile goals into the zones first. And they will then try to stack.
The main reason was that during qualifiers, about half of the teams were not able to carry mobile goals effectively. Hence if the team can put a few mobile goals into the zones, it will more or less be a guaranteed win.

But during SF and F, there was a shift towards making sure they had the highest stack. You can see the internal stacker robots moving around collecting cones before moving on to the zones. And even then, teams were always on a lookout at the opponent zones, to try to win the highest stack bonus.

And yes - think the matchload was hardly touched. The mentality was to go for cones that were opened to both alliances. And in any case, there were still cones left in the field.

And hope you guys enjoy the videos.

Final 1:

One subtle point to highlight for Final 1 autonomous.
Blue 8059F noticed that Red 8068E was matching up with them. They suspected that 8068E will disrupt their autonomous of going for the mobile goal and cone. They changed their autonomous routine last minute to go for the stationary goal instead.

Final 2:

PS… I re-positioned after being blocked by the official photographer in the first match :frowning:

Big Shout to 8059 and 8068 for letting the world again see how great Singapore is in robotics! It amazes me every year what the students across the Pacific do in such a short amount of time, with such a large amount of pressure, and with not really any game play to go off of, and the pressure of exams as well. The dual motion claw with a gap for the cones is extremely impressive as is the speed of all the lifts. It looks like the starter bar is going to play a bigger factor in scoring than I thought, and it seems more and more that they “key” to this game is getting the cone rested on the other stacked mobile goal cones. Even in the finals a team had the cone on top of the goal, but it didn’t rest stacked instead it “knocked” the already stacked cones about. Great job as always and a big thank you for releasing early video!

I’m surprised by how much stationary goal scoring there was. Very nice robots as always. Those rd4b internal stackers are huge

I think what makes the singvex robots more amazing than any of the otherv early season reveals is that they actually have to compete, where (a) everything is likely to go wrong and (b) you can’t use any editing trickery to get around it.