Starting position of bot

Hello, so my team is looking for clarification on a question about the starting position of the bot. The specific rule is does the bot have to start touching the back wall during the autonomous period.
Thanks.

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Game manual is right here: https://content.vexrobotics.com/docs/vrc-change-up/VRC-Game-Manual-08172020.pdf

What does it say?

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I’m not saying I’m the big powerhouse here but please be nicer, this is Rebecca’s first post to the forums and we don’t know how much experience they have, I sure didn’t know what the manual was not to mention how it all worked when I started.

As for the topic, SG1 does not state that the robot is required to touch the wall at the start of the match, therefore you do not have to, as long as you follow the SG1 rules you’ll be good to go. To put it straight to the point, you do not have to touch the back wall.

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Well of course we should be respectful, but teaching people to read the manual saves everyone’s time.

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Definitely, it was just the line after linking the manual that had my thoughts a little distracted. Unnecessary to me.

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I’m sorry, but the manual does not state anything specifically about the autonomous period. Last year there was a rule that the bot during the autonomous period had to start with its back touching the wall. I was just confirming that the bot can start anywhere on the starting home tile. I am terribly sorry for wasting your precious 20 seconds, but if your time is that valuable you shouldn’t have replied to this thread. Thank you Golf for being so polite!

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Theres no reason to be passive-agressive. I was simply stating that you should read the manual, which states that you must start in the home zone, and since autonomous is the start of the match, that is where you would begin autonomous, too.

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The thing is, the rulebook actually does say.
SG1:

Starting a Match. Prior to the start of each Match, the Robot must be placed such that it is:
a. Contacting its Home Zone.
b. Not contacting the gray foam field tiles outside of the Alliance’s Home Zone.
c. Not contacting any Balls other than the Preload.
d. Not contacting another Robot.
e. Contacting exactly one (1) Preload.
i. The Preload must be contacting exactly one (1) Robot.
ii. The Preload must be fully within the field perimeter.
iii. The Preload must not be breaking the vertical projection of the Goal, i.e. the Preload must not be
inside or above the Goal.

And since the start of the match is the same thing as the start of autonomous, the rulebook absolutely does say where your robot should be placed at the beginning of autonomous.

The rulebook is the single most important document for competing in VRC. The posters before were simply trying to encourage you to read it for yourself so that you may both answer your question and also gain knowledge about many other aspects of the VRC game.

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Correct. When you line up your robot at a competition and the ref says you’ve lined it up incorrectly, what are you going to do? Tell them some poster on VexForums said it was OK to line up this way, or be able to cite the game manual?

Personally, and this is only meant as weak criticism, I think that @golf and @sazrocks did the work for the OP, enabling a pattern of behavior not specific to the OP of not doing the actual leg-work yourself. There is value in understanding how to read the rules. There is value doing the work yourself and getting information directly from source, not second-hand.

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I think this is really important for VRC HS teams who will be getting learner’s permits, taking road tests, and yes, get pulled over by police. This is an important life skill to develop.

A good approach is to give a snippet form the Game Manual and ask if other share the interpretation of the rules as written. If there is a doubt, ask the official Q&A - which usually will remind the poster to read the Game Manual thoroughly.

I would not read too much more into a post saying "Check the Game Manual and tell us what it says. The is not really rude, but succinct response to what every poster should be doing.

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This topic has clearly been resolved, and is only turning into an argument. Please keep it to gracious professionalism and there are other channels for discussing the game manual.

Being a new coach and not having witnessed a live match, I was looking for clarification. I understand the rule. When talking with my team members, they indicated that they didn’t know last year that they needed to touch the wall (which is a pattern since I just read last year’s rule book to find that it indicates they needed to touch the wall).

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I would definitely recommend you suggest your team take the VRC Driver Certification course. It covers a lot of good material. As a coach, you may consider taking that, or taking the VRC Referee Certification course. It has stuff for VEXU that’s not likely relevant to you, but I find it to be an excellent resource:

VRC Driver: https://certifications.vex.com/training/vex-edr/vrc-drive-team-member-certification-course
VRC Referee: https://certifications.vex.com/training/vex-edr/vrc-change-up-head-referee-certification-course

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this is vex, not frc. we do not value gracious professionalism

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This is a fairly ignorant statement imo. Just because having gracious professionalism is not part of the vex ethos, it doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t practice it elsewhere. Having gracious professionalism is simply competing while treating each other with respect, and is a quality that everyone follow while doing anything.

About the question in the thread. If the rulebook doesn’t say “you have to start while touching the field perimeter”, your robot doesn’t have to start while touching it.

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Adding on to what Ryan has stated, this applies to other rules as well. If something is not stated, unless it is a gray area such as the inner protected zone from TT or placing a cage around the center/middle goal, then it is safe to assume you can do it. If the manual had to state every single thing that you could do, it would be much longer. I’m pretty sure that this has also been posted multiple times so next time try using the search bar instead of creating a new topic. Also for the rules just keep in mind G1, common sense applies.

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It’s been years since I’ve done VEX EDR/V5, so I don’t remember what the memo is, but you get the idea. If this was sarcastic, please rethink that tone does not carry over through text. If you don’t value respect and kindness, then you shouldn’t be in this kind of robotics. I just meant to say be nice and respectful to each other.

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