Team 2425 Hydra: Robot Update Thread

VEX Robotics Competition Discussion VRC > Previous Games
#1

Hey guys! Team 2425 is starting a weekly update thread for Toss Up. Our website will have pictures, logs, and eventually footage of our robot in construction and action.

Logs, photos, and videos(coming soon) can be found here: http://www.hydrarobotics.com/vtu-weekly-updates.html

Strategy Reveal(under construction), Robot Analysis(under construction), and Weekly updates(same as above) can be found here: [http://www.hydrarobotics.com/2014-toss-up.html

Feel free to ask questions, give advice, debate topics, et cetera. The site’ll be updated every Sunday.](http://www.hydrarobotics.com/2014-toss-up.html)

#2

Looks great, I believe you are headed in the right direction, and to be where you are this early in the game you should have a great robot by the time things get started this season. It’s good to see someone else who believes a holonomic drive will be beneficial with this game.

#3

Inspire Award participant!

Looking forward to your guys updates!

#4

Thanks for the support:)

Edit: i just realized some of the photos for week 3 didn’t upload. They should be uploaded now

#5

The detailed logging of each week is a major plus. The multitude pictures also helps explain the concepts and other things explained in the logs. This is a great vex team website. I will definitely check in from time to time to see the progress you guys make. Keep up the good work.

#6

Thank You, things like these makes it all worth the hours spent on my laggy computer :smiley:

A few lift tests were added to the website. These tests were done in week 3: http://www.hydrarobotics.com/vtu-weekly-updates.html

-One lift test was with numerous wheels (i believe five 5 inch wheels,4 omnis, 4 large, and 6 small)
-Another was with the intake, part of the hanging system, 3 steel 17.5 x 2.5 inch channels, and part of the large ball holder
-Another was with the intake, and 5 large wheels

#7

Website has been updated: http://www.hydrarobotics.com/vtu-weekly-updates.html

Week 5
-Has videos of the funnel system
-Shows footage of the mecanum drive and the bump
-various lift tests
-Conceptual video of a “no motor” catapult
-Close ups of the chain bar, funnels
-new de-scoring system in the works

#8

We should actually. It’s more open and it’s a format that FIRST requires in Florida. However as for comments, we intended just to use this thread. It’s easier to sift through comments rather than going through every video. Then again, is there a feature which updates you on which videos got comments?

#9

Yes, if you get a comment on youtube it will tell you which video it is on. The feature doesn’t work well when comments are left in large volume, but this isn’t a concern for videos that get a few hundred to maybe a few thousand views.

#10

Weekly Update is up!! Meetings were slow due to memorial day and presidential elections. Nevertheless, we vamped up the site with a few theoretical designs and strategies

New stuff
-“finished” new de-scoring prototype
-close ups of the protobot boomlift
-A shooting concept, and a new Large ball manipulator which is compatible with side rollers
-Tactic & Strategy Sheet, and Game Analysis

Weekly Updates
Tactics, Strategy, and Analysis

In that case, we’ll probably make an account over summer. Thanks:)

#11

No problem guys! I love the site so far and the robot looks awesome! I love to see teams with youtube channels, it is a lot of fun for me to go at look ate matches, tutorials, and the like.

#12

Your websight is very impressive. I love that you are making things so public!

#13

Keep in mind your “Bracing” strategy turns you into a defensive robot and you might be prepared to be bashed by the robot trying to hang. In our case we would raise our lift all of the way which puts our hanging hooks at about 48" and just hit you at high speed and tip over onto the hanging bar and latch onto it enough to pull up and hang. I would make sure the back side of your robot is able to withstand some collision without suffering damage. I think some type of bumper would be in order.

By the way your site looks great, I have enjoyed keeping up with the build.

#14

I do not believe that employing a defensive strategy, such as parking under a hanging bar near the end of a match, turns you into a defensive robot per se. I think you need to expand horizontally to achieve that feat. If they expand under the hanging bar, then feel free to start bashing them. :slight_smile:

Excerpt from <G11>
Robots which have expanded horizontally in an effort to obstruct the field will undergo even more scrutiny under <G11>, and will not be protected under <G11>. e.g. If you choose to undertake this type of strategy, your robot should be built to withstand vigorous interaction.

Cheers, Paul

#15

I should have used the correct wording. It is a defensive strategy, not defensive robot. I am sure blocking the hanging zone will be a common strategy, so I think that teams who plan on doing it need to make sure that they have thought about possibly being rammed when they design their robot. I think 2425 is wise in building their robot to accomplish a strategy and not trying to develop a strategy around a robot that is already done.

#16

6/9/13 Update is up. Includes:

-More in-depth Tactics & Strategy section
-Detailed occurrences while programming
-Close ups of (messy) wiring

Links to:
Weekly Update
Tactics & Strategy

now that summer has started, our weekly updates will start to break down. We dont have uniform meetings like we do during school. So because of this, Updates may be scattered and random for the next 2 or so months. I’ll update the forum accordingly however. However, we are holding an education meeting for our members on the 10th and 11th and a demonstration on the 28th. Expect updates!!

Thanks for the support guys!!

I never really saw the threat of damage. Due to newton’s third law, your opponent’s robot will experience the same force our robot would face. So really, as long as we maintain a good standard of engineering, bashing shouldn’t be a problem. As for the tipping over our robot, don’t you think that’s a bit problematic:confused:? There isn’t really anything you can tip yourself with. If you engineer a self tipping system, i would think that’s a waste of motors just to counter this one tactic. Another problem is going over the bump. If you initially have a bad center of gravity to tip yourself, raising the drive a few inches should cause even more problems. Of course you could engineer something to make your center of balance bad when you try to hang, but that’s even more complexity and uncertainty just to counter a tactic your not guaranteed to see.

But lets say you do develop a good way to tip yourself and your drivers have the skill to pull it off, we could just build onto our counterweight accordingly to cover more volume. We could also inhibit the movements of each other in a push fight. This becomes even more probable if you guys decide to gear up your drive or if you don’t use mecanum wheels. Another thing we were thinking about doing is placing ramps along he side of our robot. By doing this, any robot who tries pushing us, will start driving up a slight incline. With this incline, vector forces are broken up, beneficial friction increases, and thus we are harder to push around. in this case, if you drive up our incline, your hanging system would naturally tip away from the hanging bar. The angle wont be significant enough to tip any robot, but the slight angle will be enough to disrupt a 48 inch long system. Unless you decide to use more motors towards articulating your hanging system, it should be very difficult to hang. If you do decide to devote more motors to your hanging system, your bucky ball strategy could be jeopardized to the point that hanging is no longer a threat. But of course, we aren’t guaranteed to use this strategy. If our hanging mechanism goes out well, we can always fight fire with fire. But of course, the dragon always wins the firefight ;):stuck_out_tongue:

if you do pull it off though, i think we would be Dqed. We would then count as a robot contacting a robot attempting to hang.

We are unworthy of your flattery:o. Though we did develop a strategy before we developed a robot, we did create that one strategy after realizing how many points a double hang could be. in a 2 vs 1, we realized that if we prevent an opponent from hanging rather than out hanging them ourselves, we could develop a simpler robot which a simpler execution. Also, we realized we could branch this tactic from another tactic which occurs near the beginning of match play, making this an even more viable option

#17

I don’t think you would be DQ’d if you are not touching the hanging structure per SG7. As for our tipping it would not take more than sudden deceleration to tip a 42"+ tall robot with an 18" wheelbase, add another 6"+ of hooks from the top the tipping strategy would work with some practice and skill. That being said, our chances of ever competing against you are slim to none, and less than 20% at worlds. We do expect to see this strategy this season though. I do not see the average team that employs this strategy as preparing for a counter strategy against it.

With the point value of hanging I bet that most teams that cannot hang will work hard to prevent the other team from hanging. One strategy of yours that we had thought of and will employ is to place bucky balls on the 12" bar if it appears as though our opponent will have a difficult time removing them unless we are in the last 15-20 seconds in which case we will just keep them in our intake when we go to hang.

#18

According to sg7 though,

well as i said earlier if it’s easy to tip yourself intentionally, you would have problems with the bump, unless you engineered yourself to adjust your center of gravity after you go over the bump by adjusting your lift system. But of course, that just adds on to execution time and driver precision making things even harder to do. Maybe you could do something effectively with pneumatics.

Since you mentioned 48 inches, the only system i know of capable of doing that effectively is a linear lift. Arm systems would have too many torsion problems around axles. The bulk and complexity of scissor lifts also reduces their chances. So by the high frictional nature of linear lifts, my guess is the lift would take around 8 seconds to fully extend and collapse. Add on driving time, the time it takes to push through the bot, align, etc, and your cutting it really close.

However, you’ll still have problems with the ramp idea. if your on the ramp, you cant tip yourself over. Another thought is if we raise our lift system as well, we can catch you before you tip. It does raise the risk of touching your hanging bar, but with practice i’m sure things will go fine. There’s also the bulk of the counterweight pushing you far back. And now that i think about it, if you have a 48" long system tipping over with a center of gravity towards the hooks, the strain experienced on the mounting points is pretty big.

I like the concept of storing bucky balls on the barrier, but i’m still wondering whether or not teams can force balls through the barrier like teams in gateway and goal capping. I like storing them in the intake as well. it’s an easy 6 points you can cancel out. Have you considered stashing Large Balls?

#19

We can stash the large balls, but nobody seems to think it is worthwhile. They are way too easy to descore and them being capped only adds 5 points which would require staying by the 24" goal to guard it. Our strategy may change when the season starts and we see how everyone is really playing the game. I believe so far everyone’s strategy is based on how they think others will play.

#20

I wholeheartily agree with this. I have been basing all of what I have done on what I think other teams will do. I dont see stashing the large balls as a big priority. If you can do it, kudos to you.

Now, driving over the bump, you better be able to do that.