Team Government Issues

VEX V5 General Discussion General Forum
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My team is having trouble with recruiting and properly selecting people to be on our team. Last year, we tried having two teams, but eventually we realized that we didn’t have the consistent attendance that we needed to make it work. Many people decided they can come and go whenever they wanted; it became difficult for us to keep committed and driven people on the team and working efficiently. We did not have an adequate structure for selecting and managing people on the team.

One of the biggest challenges that we have faced is that of people coming and believing that they are on the robotics team, and they come and go and cause distractions. Most of the work these people do is unacceptable, if they do any work at all. They make messes, and they build things without permission. This contributed to loads of wasted time, much of me taking apart things or rebuilding things that were built improperly. The reason why this is so much of a problem for us is that we do not have a proper way of selecting people to be on the team, and managing what people get to do and what people are not permitted to do.

I have trouble dealing with these people because I hate to be rude to anyone. However, it is becoming very detrimental to our productivity, focus, and morale. Much time has been wasted, time that I believe could have drastically changed the outcome of our season. We were unprepared this season, always scrambling to get stuff done, and constantly distracted by people who shouldn’t be there. I do not want this to happen next year, especially because of the plans I have. I believe that we have some very skilled people on the team, but all that skill amounts to nothing if it is unfocused and governed improperly. I also believe that many of these problems can be solved through a clear, thorough evaluation and reformation of our team government system.

How should we run our team?

How do we keep people we don’t want off the team?

What standards should we set to establish team membership?

How do we recruit more people?

What is the most effective system of leadership? Hierarchy, network, etc.

How do we determine the privileges that members possess?

If anyone could provide suggestions to help me solve these problems I would greatly appreciate the help. I have my own ideas but it would be nice to hear what other people think before I make decisions.

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One way to look at a robotics team would be to treat it like a sports team. If playing on a baseball team, for example, students know up front that they’re in it for the whole season, you can’t just come and go to practice once in a while, and there is a coach who can cut you from the team if there’s a problem. Student-centered, student run is a great thing, but sometimes maybe you need an adult mentor/coach to be the authority.

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how about having it so you must come to an amount of practices each week/month to be able to compete at the next game or even kick them off the team if thay can’t make it to the predetermined amount of practices

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How should we run our team?
If i would you i would run it like a sports team or like a class. expect kids to stay for the full season and to prioritize it over other extra curriculars. Also assign weekly assignments for each member to do to advance the team as a whole

How do we keep people we don’t want off the team?
You could make them take an entrance test to test their basic knowledge. you could also set up a strike system so like if they do not complete task given withought a good excuse then they lose a strike and if they do it more than 3 or 5 times they are off the team.

What standards should we set to establish team membership?
This depends on how competitive you want the team to be. if you want them to be competitive then expect them to dedicate 10+hours a week. expect them to be working and reasurching outside of inperson practice and expect them to comunicate outside of practice so builders and desighners can work on getting things planned out befor they meet back up to work on hte acutal robot. They should also stay in contact with programmers and journalist so that every portion of the team is moving forward.

How do we recruit more people?
This one has me stumped. mabey make poster to advertise or talk to kids that are in higher level math or science classes as they may have more intrest in a robotics club

What is the most effective system of leadership? Hierarchy, network, etc.
usually ther is like 1 tam captin. in which case that is me. Make sure the team captin is someone who is putting in the time and actually contributing to the team. i have seen a few to many teams were the captain is doing nothing to really contribute but they are some how in charge of the team. the team captain should make sure that everyone on the time is completing task by deadlines. also assign each person 2 roles so that there is multiple members working on any given task. For example you can have a primary programmer who also does some journaling and a secondary programmer whose primary role is to build.

How do we determine the privileges that members possess?

uhm… the team should come to an agreement and in reality each person should have a say in what happens pretty equally otherwise members who are always following orders will lose intrest and peoples whose opinions are supressed might not be able to share some really great desigh ideas.

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Expect them to commit for the full season? Yes, absolutely. Expect them to prioritize it? Now that I’m not so sure about.

Obviously, everyone should make an attempt to attend every competition and whatnot, and everyone needs to contribute to the robot in one way or another sure. However, I don’t think it’s reasonable to tell them to give up everything else they do for vex. Realistically, if they have to miss one competition due to some other thing or they can’t show up for practice one recurring day out of the week, I don’t see that as remotely an issue. Now, if they’re repeat offenders who you never see, now that’s another story, but it is absolutely unrealistic to expect high schoolers to drop everything to do robotics. Some kids do that, and good for them, but I don’t think that should be the standard.

There’s no one “correct” answer to this question. There are certainly incorrect answers, but what it really comes down to is “What do you think will work best for your team and your organization”. Some teams can do really laid back and relax where they just kind of do their own thing at their own speed and work just fine, while other teams need rigid structure and someone always on top of them to get things done. It sounds like you’re taking the reigns with your org, so you just need to step back and really assess what you have and what the people need to succeed.

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Thanks, this gives me some great insight.

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Great advice, I appreciate it.

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Another quick advice I would give is that ensure you have an incentive system. In my team, the incentive to work is going on field trips and tournaments. Many students enjoy skipping class for field trip and going on trips for tournaments. Using this, we can threaten kids who don’t work with denial of our team’s incentives and privileges.

The work is judged by the teacher and captain. When it comes time to make the list of who will be going, the coach and captain discuss who can go and who will not.

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Because robotics at my school is an actual class (blends in seamlessly with after school practice time, so it’s really just for more time and to show up on your transcript), threats of a bad grade are enough in our case to get people to do their jobs (it also helps to have motivated + interested team members as well, you know).

As in your case, incentives would be a great way to gauge and demonstrate interest. If students are not actively helping out and contributing in some meaningful way to team progress, then I would recommend they get removed from the team (also shows them that it takes effort to keep it for your college applications lol). Having general interest meetings at the start of the season would also be a good way to see which students (even returning ones) are willing to put in the effort for another season of competing.

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I found that our biggest problem was caused by new students that weren’t aware of the commitment and the challenge of competition robotics. Their perception was something like battle-bots or driving an RC car.

Our solution was to host two evening intro courses in the spring where individual students built, drove, programmed, and competed with a basic push bot. Very simple challenges - nothing like an actual competition. Some liked it and some realized that it was a lot of work.

Students and parents had a better understanding of the expectations before they made a commitment to a 12+ week season.

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How should we run our team?

I don’t know your students. But at least for our team, we have a Team Leader, and then the other 3 of us. Team Leader makes the final decision, but not every single one. In other words, imagine a federal government.

How do we keep people we don’t want off the team?

Just straight up kick them out. Say get out and make sure they stay out. Tell the people who are bringing them that every time they bring one of their buddies, they can’t get go to robotics for two whole weeks. Harsh, but if they care about robotics, they’ll comply.

What standards should we set to establish team membership?

I saw some people say an exam would be proper. However, I disagree. Some people are not good test takers, nor are they book smart, but can do insane things in robotics if they try. I’d say the number one factor has to be drive: they have to WANT to win, not just want to win. In other words, you interview them and see if they have that drive. If they don’t but you think they can change, then tell them “if you don’t dedicate yourself, you will not win: VEX is brutal and won’t let you get an easy dub”. One of the things that makes our team so great is that each of us would stay up until 3 in the morning doing 12 hours straight of coding, building, driving, journaling, and we did. Not only did we say we would, but we did.

How do we recruit more people?

This isn’t an easy or a hard question: get more people. Look for the smartest in your school and appeal to them. Maybe ask the teachers to tell the smartest kids in their class about the robotics program. I wouldn’t have even known we had a robotics team unless it was in the mourning announcements the one day I happened to be paying attention. If I didn’t hear that, I would never have done all the things I have.

What is the most effective system of leadership? Hierarchy, network, etc.

I’d say a federal style thing. Everyone is semi autonomous, but all working towards the common goal. For example, if I have to code something, I won’t always run it by my team leader and give him an in-depth explanation of how it works, but I will tell him when something is important or crucial. For example, if I want to change the refresh rate of the brain or make a new auton, then I’ll let him know of his opinion on the matter.

How do we determine the privileges that members possess?

i don’t know what privileges mean, you’d have to be more specific.

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