Technical Issues/Brainstorming

I know this will cause a LOT of headaches with teams, but does ANYONE have any ideas how to work with/around the size rules? Did anyone find any loopholes?

Don’t look for loopholes. Chances are, they’ll be fixed in updates or Q & A’s.

A. If someone found one, they most likely won’t tell you. :wink:
B. As the other poster said, don’t try to just slip by the rules, unless the loophole is huge and has a sign that says “Try me”. Chances are, there will be a rule update to fix this, or you will just get in trouble at the competition (which wouldn’t be good).

The main thing I’m wondering is “expand”

expand is an action, so what happens if you expand and leave the area?
this is my only answer:

Now people reading this don’t get too many bright ideas. Simply because you expand a little bit doesn’t mean you can continue expanding when you are out of the climbing zone (like warping tethers).

Now another question is what happens if a robot reached it’s maximum expansion size, then contracts outside the goal. I assume that is ok, but my next assumption is that they are no longer allowed to expand again until they get back in the triangle(sg10). So for example, you have a claw. Your claw is closed and it reaches out for a maximum perimeter. you open the claw to grab a ball and thus decrease your perimeter, but I don’t think you can close the claw because you are outside the triangle. Now this may change with other systems like a vertical conveyor. You have a series of flaps pointing out, but as a flap rolls in, another flap takes it’s place, therefore you don’t change your perimeter. Now maybe this can be exploited, say you have a gigantic flap/umbrella on top, and an entire claw or whatever mechanism below you desire below, I don’t know. Or is this going to be patched by saying hey, no mechanisms that fit under subsystem 1, 2, or 3, can expand past the perimeter. That way you can still lift your partner because they are considered a robot, not a game object.

Now another question is length, width, and height set. in the last 30 seconds you can expand to whatever height, but let’s say you tip yourself. Is height still considered the drive base to the “opposite” side of the robot, or is that now your perimeter. Or is this going to be patched simply by saying “hey stop tipping over your own robot, that’s going to hurt someone”

If that’s not just oversight on the part of the GDC, then wallbots would still be allowed this year, assuming they don’t expand beyond the size of the climbing zone during expansion. This rule does seem like it can cause a lot of confusion though. As soon as the Q&A opens, someone should ask about this.

I would think this was just a technicality of the wording that they overlooked, except they seem to pretty explicitly address it with this rule

If being over 18"^3 outside the climbing zone, and not just the action of expansion outside it, were definitively illegal, why would they include a clause regarding the actions of that robot outside that zone, when just being outside the zone would be a violation?

The thing is, you can only expand in the last 30 seconds, so if you are a wallbot having to waste a 1:30- you aren’t going to do well.

As for the size constraints, I don’t understand all the fuss- Toss-Up had a 12" bridge almost everyone could cross- This doesn’t seem any more difficult than that…

Honestly, I think, the biggest challenge this year is how you are going to elevate your partner and be elevated…going to be very interesting seeing those innovative designs…

Yeah- especially if teams don’t have access to pneumatics- but its a good thing we’ve got mountains of aluminum from this year!

Can’t vertically expand until the last thirty seconds, you’re free to horizontally expand at any time (assuming you’re in the climbing zone).

Make two clips on the left and right front corners. Hold two preloads in those clips. This way you have about 2" deep guarded concave plow without being technically concave portions of the Robot.

<SG10> states “Robots may expand beyond their normal maximum perimeter of 18” by 18” only while completely within the volume of the Climbing Zone.”

This doesn’t look poorly worded to me, as it implies if it goes outside the volume, it is no longer legal.

Also the area of the climbing zone is all four corner tiles, not just the triangle marked by the tape.

Personally, when I think of expand, I think of the robot increasing its outer dimensions. The way I read the rule, you can expand within the climbing zone, but if you leave it, then you can’t expand anymore. Also, you would then be responsible for any entanglement.

Ehh I completely understand what you’re trying to say, but to me myself it seems like the rule is trying to say something along the lines of this, if it were to be reworded: "“Robots may be bigger than their normal maximum perimeter of 18” by 18” only while completely within the volume of the Climbing Zone.”

I’m pretty sure this is an unintentional loophole.

It’s definitely something to ask Karthik about once the Q&A opens.

So, does this mean that if you have, say, a Clawbot-like arm, if it’s within size constraints in the “down” position, if it leaves the 18"x18"x18" when lifted up, it’s illegal?

Yes, that is exactly what the rules say this year.

Does anyone know how much the scoring objects will weigh? It would be useful to know during the design process.

They’ll probably weigh very little. Definitely under a pound. They’re made of foam, afterall.

So based on what I’m reading:

You can expand horizontally only if you are in the climbing zone. To leave the climbing zone you would have to contract back to less than 18^3.

So what is the point of the above rule? Isn’t it just flat out illegal to be bigger than 18^3 outside the climbing zone. Should that just be a DQ?

The rules seem to say you cannot expand outside the climbing zone…but…if you do…we don’t really care…just don’t entangle anyone. That can’t really be what they mean.