thought on no human interaction durring skills

I was wondering what the vex community thought about the new ruling this year about never having human interaction on the field. specifically towards programmers skills.

personally I love it. but I know that there is some controversy.

Me too! It’s about time!

It’s called the programming skills challenge for a reason. I’m sick of people winning local events with almost no programming…just clever (or not even so clever) re-positioning.

gateway was the worst with this. send it to a tile… reposition…score repeat.

I agree. I’ve always urged my kids to perform their programming skills without any interaction. My excuse has always been that they don’t always line things up properly during re-positioning, but my real motivation has been to force them to get better at programming. And yet as soon as they see somebody else racking up lots more points with some dorky re-positioning, they ignore me and do whatever they can to get more points. I don’t blame them, but I am happy to see this year’s Skills allowing for only pure programming.

I agree, it should have been changed awhile ago.

+infinity to this.

Programming skills should not be repositioning skills.

Does no human interaction mean no driver control loads?

This is NOT an official answer. But if you look in the Programming Skills Manual, you’ll see a definition that looks like this:

Programming Skills Load – The sixty (60) Balls that Student Drive Team Members of each Alliance may load onto their Alliance Starting Tiles or into their Robots during the Programming Skills Match.

Also, there is this:

In a Programming Skills Match, Programming Skills Loads can be loaded in any Loading Zone.

If a robot just sits and can shoot 60 balls accurately for programming skills, it seems like less programming than making a robot go forward and come back for re-positioning. I really hope that rule changes on 6/15

If this is all they do, they will be leaving a lot of points on the table. All 10 of the bonus balls are out on the field of play. Those can be 10 points each totalling 100 potential points.

Additionally, you have to get the balls into the robot. It can only control 4 balls at a time. My guess is that none of the top 30 teams in programming skill will use that strategy.

I think the top teams will score all of those balls very fast and still have lots of time to go about scoring the balls on the field (which will require lots of programming).

64 balls in 60 seconds? I guess its possible, but flywheels can only spin up so fast, and need to regain energy lost during firing. these aren’t cim motors we are talking about after all, they’re 393s. I can see it being possible with an extremely well tuned TBH controller and a “hopper” of sorts but I don’t see many teams having that kind of raw shooting output at that distance.

I have no doubt it will be common later in the season. During the early skyrise season everyone thought 2 skyrises would be max during auton. We had teams regularly doing 6 at worlds.

Never underestimate these crazy vex participants.

We’ve been doing just fine without repositioning for the last 2 seasons.
https://vexforum.com/t/7682-wingus-dingus-skyrise-programming-skills/29483/1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY3jaVONeHg

Which teams?

I was in the arts division, so I didn’t see many other matches. But in Arts, team 62 was more often than not getting 6. There were field tolerance problems that prevented them from getting 6 every time, but still awesome nonetheless. I heard from people in other divisions there were also teams getting 6, but was not at those divisions so do not know the numbers.

In Arts we also had lots of people getting 5…EVERYtime. Team 26 for example was amazing.

My point was that I think we will definitely see all the programming skills loads scored…and then some. All that needs to be done is point the robot in the correct direction and load the balls as fast as the robot can handle them. Unlike skyrise which required VERY precise movement back and forth to score skyrises and we STILL saw an entire skyrise tower scored in less than 15 seconds (team 62, not at worlds…practice video). Obviously it won’t be easy, but I think it will happen.

Not trying to put down team 62, but I wonder which matches you were watching. Looking back at the stream, I saw these numbers from team 62 in autonomous:

Qual. #21: ?
Qual. #43: ? (<6)
Qual. #54: 4
Qual. #77: ?
Qual. #98: 2
Qual. #129: 6
Qual. #149: 0
Qual. #164: 0
Qual. #187: 0
Qual. #221: 0
QF #2-1: 2
QF #2-2: 4
QF #2-3: ?
SF #1-1: 0
SF #1-2: 0

I may have been recalling some matches incorrectly. But I do wonder if some of your question marks were 6 skyrise autons. I know I saw it work several times, but I also saw him on the practice fields where it was working very well. I may be messing up practices/matches in my head. But everyone seems to be missing the point I was making…this isn’t about one teams autonomous.

The point was that scoring skyrise sections where a tolerance of even a half inch off meant big problems, we STILL had awesome high scores during autonomouses at Worlds. (yes the finals happened to fail, but hundreds of other matches before that were successful) Therefore, in NbN I fully expect some teams to be able to score all 64 programming skills loads and still have time to go score a stack or two. Field tolerances will have much less impact this year. It’s relatively easy to point the robot at the goal and shovel in balls as fast as your launcher can handle them.

Anyone who thinks it will take 1-3 seconds per ball I believe is mistaken. A skyrise could be scored in 2.5-3 seconds. That required a lot more movement than launching a ball. Once people perfect their launchers I believe we will see multiple balls per second.

I’m going to have to wait until my kids get their hands on the real game objects, but I believe you are giving a bit too much credit to the vex components. Teams are going to need to get really clever with how they deal with power, because the two motor shooters we have seen so far simply dont seem remotely capable of that ENERGY output, not because of any design flaw, but simply because motors can only generate so much energy.

I can see teams having four motors on their shooter and getting clever with PTO transmissions for their lift though. considering how well PTOs have gone in the past I am still skeptical.

We’ll wait and see!

In skyrise, teams were lifting 3-4 lbs of cubes 6-7 feet high in 2 seconds. I think you may not be giving the vex components and student minds enough credit.

I foresee 6 motor launchers on many robots. I don’t think multiple balls per second will be a problem, but I may be wrong. (I’m talking 2, MAYBE 3 balls per second)

We are two weeks into the season and we already have balls launching across the field quite well with only 2 motors. There is SO much more time for improvement it seems people are being fairly pessimistic as to what teams will be able to do.

At the beginning of skyrise no one I talked with thought you would be able to score 3 cubes at one time on a 7 high skyrise. But by Worlds it was being done.