Today 8/17 is Official Game Manual day!

Predictions when it will be released and what changes will be made?

bo3 will come back!

In all seriousness, I think there will be no major game changing updates. (However, I think Vex should look at changing descoring rules.)

What descoring rules do you want to see changed?

I haven’t actually re-read the rules since May, but i didn’t remember there being any descoring rules.

The descoring of caps of posts seems to be more efficient then spending time to put them up

Is that a bad thing?

Flipping a low cap - 2 pt swing
Flipping a high cap - 4 pt swing
Lowering a cap - 1 pt swing
Raising a cap - 1 pt swing

Seems like it is in your best interest to both be able to flip a high cap and leave it high, as well as defend your high caps. In a game with a top score of about 45 points, being able to swing almost 10% in one move is important.

But really, it is exactly the same as toggling a high flag. Still a 4 point swing. The entire game requires descoring. That is my favorite thing about this year’s game.

Although this seems like a pretty good analysis at first glance, it neglects a few points I’d like to bring up:

-If you only get 1 point for putting a cap on a post why would you put it up there in the first place? (it just gives your opponent a 4pt option)

-why spend the time lining up to flip an already scored cap when u can just knock it down and get 1-3pts and not have the liability of having a cap they can once again flip. (again, keeping them from the 4pt option)

-with the limit of only 8m with v5, it will be hard to find a reason to want to do both flags and caps when you can be so successful without doing caps.

As of right now, I think two flag robots with post descorers (that can also flip floor caps) is the best alliance.

Interesting ideas…

Although I imagine later in the season we will see what we saw in other back and forth games like startruck. Teams will hold out on major scoring until the last second, flipping a cap closer to the endgame will be worth a lot more. In fact, we might even start to see it become legitimately viable to neglect the platforms, like the pole.

What about skills though? Cap posting could be quite useful there

Yes, and in autonomous. Autonomous bonus can’t be taken away by a de-scoring arm.

Also want to note that with no rotator on your lift it only takes one motor to score and descore high caps. So I see no reason why you shouldn’t score caps

If your state is competitive enough such that flipping all the flags/ground caps and parking is not good enough to win skills, I’d be surprised. However, if that is the case, then it may be worth it if you are prioritizing the skills route.

Better than flipping additional flags? its still a 1 pt difference to cap a post while shooting one of the middle flags is 2pts. Even with two teams, flipping 6 flags/4 caps and parking is a big endeavor.

By skulls I meant autonomous skills. It will be very hard to get the balls where they roll after being pushed off caps/platforms (just look at autons in nbn and you’ll see) so caps might be your only method of getting points in that area

That is a good point you bring up. However, you do have 5 balls that are consistently in a good spot to intake. You also need to accept that programming skills may not max out, or may not be worth it to max out. (Bar at worlds for that big red)

With only those 5 balls and all other avenues of scoring bar posts, you can still net 27 points, which I think would be a very good programming score.

Again though if you use a passive scoop no rotator and just onemotor on a lift you can score caps with the same motor efficiency as a descorer so I see no reason why not

@theEqualizer All of this is fine and good, but back to the original question, how would you want the rules about de-scoring to be changed?

Hate to be so harsh with it, but I think that you shouldn’t be allowed to descore the point, only to flip it to your color on the post

i can already imagine the pain from refs…

This is too vague, there’s no way it could be implemented that wouldn’t result in massive amounts of confusion and dq’s.,

Although that may be the “best” scenario, that just isn’t feasible. What if a robot takes a cap from a post, and in the process of flipping it, drops it? Or what about the people that may not have a flipping mechanism on their lift (maybe using their ball intake rollers in order to flip them)? These teams would never be allowed to descore a cap when in reality they could easily take a cap off, flip it on the ground, then put it back up

Well said.

I’d also like to see some sort of possible appeal process in case a student believes a referee is making an incorrect call. Maybe some GDC employees could be available to contact over the phone? Especially as we get near states and nationals, and especially with bo1, this could be do or die.