I had a question about the TRSP section in the Rankings tab on VexDB.

The team I mentor was competing at Worlds this past weekend, and it was a great experience. Something we noticed throughout the event was that the luck of the draw in the schedule did not work well in our favor. We had a lot of rough match-ups in qualification rounds, whether it be a slightly weaker alliance partner we were with or an above and beyond opponent we had to face. When looking at our data for Worlds, we noticed a section known as TRSP or Truly Representative Schedule Points, a system that can determine match schedule difficulty. I saw a value of 130 displayed under it. After looking throughout other teams in our division (Middle School Opportunity Division), we saw that they had seemingly lower values for their TRSP (60-80 range was the most common value).

Does a higher value of TRSP reflect the schedule difficulty? In other words, is it the higher it is the more difficult the schedule was for a team? This is my interpretation of it and I believe its right, however I am not solely sure.

I will be going through all the data for Worlds-participating Middle School teams and going to see who had the highest TRSP. After checking the vast majority of teams in the Opportunity division, 2177H most likely had the most difficult schedule as I did not find a number over their 130 TRSP.

Hopefully I can clear up how TRSP is calculated and used to measure schedule difficulty. If you have any idea, please let me know. Thank you.

TRSP = opponent WP + opponent WP - alliance WP

Higher TRSP means tougher schedule

Thank you very much, so my interpretation was true and the team I mentor just had hard luck for their first ever Worlds.

I feel your pain JC0101!

We had a great robot and drive team, but a horrific Q match draw! The lowest TRSP in the 80-team Opportunity Division was 34 (we finished 8 spots ahead of that team, BTW) and the highest TRSP in the division was 130. Our team’s TRSP was 125, the 4th hardest schedule (by number) of the 80-team field (I couldn’t believe there were teams that had a more difficult path than us when I started looking at the TRSP numbers, but there were actually 3 TRSP’s of 126, another of 127, and a 130). Of our 10 matches, our highest-ranked alliance partners finished #7 and #26 (and #26 had a mechanical issue during our match that resulted in a lopsided loss). The final rankings of our 8 other alliance partners were: #51, #52, #58, #64, #68, #70, #71, and #74 (out of 80 teams)! On the flip side, the average final ranking of our 20 opponents was 36.4.

The most amazing thing is that we finished with a final division ranking of #32 (5-4-1), finished with a higher ranking than the average final ranking of our opponents, and we did it with alliance partners who had an average final ranking of 56.7! Somehow we won 5Q matches and had 1 tie, and did so by winning only 1 of those matches with an alliance partner ranked higher than #51 in any of our winning/tied matches! I firmly believe we had a Top-10 robot and drive team, but our draw simply made our path too difficult and we were not selected to a finals alliance. To pour salt in the wound, the #7-seeded alliance selected the #70-ranked team as their 3rd alliance partner. I suppose that since playing 8Q matches with teams that ranged from 51 to 74 in the final rankings contributed to our ‘seemingly’ unimpressive 5-4-1 record, it was only fitting that a #70-ranked team was the final death-blow to us advancing to the elimination round, LOL!

I know we are not the first team to fall victim to the random draw Q-match setup, but it still doesn’t make our team feel much better. We won 2 of our matches against the #6-ranked team from China, and the #14-ranked Singapore team, and we lost a close 34-24 match to a #2/#11 alliance … and our alliance partner in that match ended up being ranked #71! We certainly tried to sell ourselves to potential alliance captains by showing them this data early Saturday morning before the final two Q-matches, but to no avail. A side consequence of having a difficult schedule is that you often don’t get the opportunity to be in alliances with top teams during Q-matches, and thus, they don’t know anything about you (other than, perhaps, that they have probably beaten you during a Q-match), so you get the double-whammy of not getting consideration as a 3rd alliance pick as well.

I wish there was a better way to schedule Q-matches, but we all have to deal with it until a better method comes along. I also wish there was more time between the final Q-match and alliance selections at Worlds so that the top teams could actually look at the numbers and get their heads together about making alliance picks. The first alliance pick is usually pretty easy, but picking the 3rd alliance partner is where a team has to do their homework…unfortunately, the cattle herding method from Q-match completion to alliance selections leaves little time to do actual homework.

We advanced to the semis of the Opportunity Division last year as a 3rd alliance pick, but in many ways, I’m more proud of what we accomplished this year given the circumstances. Of the 7 Opportunity Division teams who had a TRSP of 120+, we finished as the highest ranked team, and the only team with a winning record. The next closest 120+ TRSP team finished with a ranking of #42 (5-5-0—also great given their schedule). Considering the difficulty of our schedule, there’s no way we could have had a winning Q-match record at Worlds this year without having a great robot and a great drive team! It’s a testament to our kids and to how far our program has come!

PS…sorry for the long post — just had to ‘rant’ a bit and “let it out” for therapeutic reasons, LOL! I feel better now…a least a little bit better :slight_smile:

I appreciate your post and research into the problem for our division! That team you mentioned with the 130 TRSP that finished 42nd with 5-5 record was my team, 2177H, and it makes us feel better that we had the second best performance in the 120+ TRSP range. You guys must have had a great robot and drive team with you finishing in the upper half with that high TRSP value, hats off to you guys!

Although it may seem like we are tooting our own horn, we also thought are robot was well built and driven for the competition, and if the schedule was different we would have done much better. We went undefeated and became number one seed captain at Wisconsin State Championship without much of a problem, and we were putting in high scoring matches with our alliance partners 5509B – who went 7-3 at 12th place with 120 TRSP in Spirit Division (most likely the best performance as a middle school team with 120+ TRSP, counting both divisions). With our accomplishments within the region, we had high hopes.

I also agree with you that the timing between the end of qualifications and alliance selection was very limited and short. If we had the one hour lunch break between the ending of qualifications and alliance selection, then we would have had enough time to gather the data and present it to the alliance captains in the top 8 and the potential ones within 10-13th place or so. The timing made everything rushed as well (many alliance captain pits were empty the final day of Worlds and it was a struggle to find them to talk).

However, at the end of the day it is just a random draw and some teams have to fall short of their luck. It’s how the game works and we have to live with it.

Hopefully our “In the Zone” season goes well enough for us to have another shot at Worlds. Best of luck to you and all teams reading this.

JC0101…I had a suspicion that you were with the 130 TRSP team! Kudos to your team as well for going 5-5 with that brutal Q-match schedule! That is an incredible feat to break even with the hardest schedule in the division! The other KY teams we won state with had TRSP’s of 102 (32160A; #31 @ 6-4-0) and 127 (7177A; #68 @ 3-7-1). The one caveat is that 7177A brought a new robot to Worlds that they were not as familiar with…they originally had a pretty strong tank-drive robot at the KY State Championship, but didn’t fare nearly as well at Worlds with their new arcade-drive robot.

It’s quite an impressive feat that the Wisconsin team with a 120 TRSP in the Spirit Division went 7-3-0! They obviously had a great robot and drive team, too! Did they get selected to a Spirit Division Tournament alliance (I’m too lazy to research — I’ve done enough of that already, HaHa!)?

In many ways, we benefitted from a favorable schedule last year, which was great for our first trip to Worlds. It’s disappointing how it all played out this year because we were much better prepared, and in all honesty, we had a far superior robot this year. Nevertheless, I’m proud of my kids for fighting until the very last match, and for working their way into a position to even be considered for an alliance spot (we were 3-4-1 heading into Saturday)!

Hopefully we will both be the beneficiaries of a favorable schedule next season if we are fortunate enough to advance to Worlds!

Good Luck to you and your program next season! We’ll have to look each other up if we make it to Worlds in 2018!