We recently attended the vex iq U.S. open create and had some thoughts.
Skills:
On the first day we had just the skills giving us plenty of time to tune. They had six fields open meaning that the lines were very short and they were accommodating. However toward the end of the day it came to my attention that a team had scored 920 placing them second in the world. However there was significant controversy over the team placing the ball in the field and rolling.
You can come to your own conclusion on that match, and there was rumors that they were family friends however these refs were asked to leave and the rest of skills ran smoothly.
Qualifiers:
We ended up having 12 matches in two divisions and these ran rather smoothly however with the significant increase in china loading many teams had points taken away from them. While I understand that china loading is risky there were several close ones that they called in our division which we were ok with however in blue division we noticed several that they let go that they would’ve called in our division. The refs also seemed to not be fully aware of the rules and matches were frequently stopped due to them arguing over scores and at one point they told a team it was illegal for the ball to touch the yellow. They however ran decently just possibly needed a bit more volunteer training.
Finals:
Finals was a large mess they were constantly changing which teams would get to compete and ended with them having division finals and then sending the winners against each other. I don’t know if this is normal as I normally only attend one division events however the constant changing of plans made it extremely confusing. Then they had the issue of china loading again. The refs were constantly arguing and calling some times and not others then at the very end of our division finals they failed a team sending them into tears. There were several people recording and the match looks fine in frame by frame however after arguing for almost an hour they declined the team. Finally the last finals began and they had almost 20 people recording. They then didn’t call anything presumably for fear of arguements because the loads were the exact same as previously and they were called on a couple before. If they wanna be strict they have to be consistent throughout.
China Loading:
I personally feel that China Loading needs to be banned however after the game manual update I’m assuming it won’t. I think they should either get rid of the rule requiring teams to back up because it prevents nothing and just overcomplicates it making more work for the refs or they should come up with a simple camera and raspberry pi that automates it. As of the moment there are far too many teams doing it and has way too much variance by refs. Top teams can’t even opt out of it because it’s required for top scores and I believe something needs to be done and I would love to hear your opinions and ideas.
Side note just to clarify this is in no means meant to be slandering U.S. create it was an amazing event that provided a unique experience all possible because of volunteers I just wanted to give constructive criticism and address concerns but huge thanks to all the volunteers who make vex possible.
From my experience, and others, create is an awful event.
The food situation is horrible, with a small concession stand/restaurant, with an absurd line just to buy overpriced garbage.
The venue is just awful. It in a huge gym/warehouse in the middle of nowhere? And there is NOTHING in the town besides an olive garden
The refs here are notorious for being lack luster. They have done things like this in the past rigging skills with family members back in Slapshot, and theres video footage of it. In fact, last year they let a fellow student, who was competing score there competitors matches, since they needed people to score.
Not to throw around allegations but also this event if full of teams who have had loads of mentor built allegations, but then also if you win, you literally get NOTHING. There is literally zero point to even go.
Welp, those are my thoughts, but overall I understand your frustration and highly recommend you refrain from returning.
Yes and I completely agree however I don’t necessarily think the event is horrible especially if you’re within a day drive. It gives a large event experience without it being overwhelming, and I understand it’s extremely challenging to run events of this size with only volunteers, however if you don’t have the capabilities to run an event of that size well. Then don’t run the event. That brings me to the china load. My team was disqualified countless times which was extremely discouraging however then saw a ref switch and our alliance partners who china loaded had no calls in their next match with not changes. At worlds we would also only have volunteer refs, and even with a frame by frame I’m not sure I could make much better calls which is why they need to have a better rule for china load. That being the case they’re clearly not going to ban it so idk what to do.
I used to agree with you and complained about the loading ball because I said that teams were given a huge bot size limit to let them be innovative and every time they came up with a new idea they banned it. However I know that there were several teams who were built by their parents and didn’t really care when something went wrong until were yelled at. The driving at least leaves something up to the students, and I’m not saying it needs to be banned just have a better way of reffing it or at this point just let teams sit there. The amount of kids I saw in tears after being called out by refs was absurd. In the very last finals match there was almost a coop. There was forty kids screaming at the refs with frame by frames twenty of them in tears. Parents screaming at kids and if was just an overall mess. I personally know that it I spend five thousand dollars to go to worlds and I don’t make division finals because I get a dq or points taken away while other teams don’t I will be outraged and I suspect you will to.
No it should, the teams that did China loading at the event (I was there) would break several rules to do it. First the ball they held crosed the plane, that itself is a DQ, secondly teams that did that the robot (Because they used a distance sensor) would come in before the released the balls. If you could do China loading legally its great, but few teams do
There is no doubt that the bots are mentor built. We had an alliance partner that had there bot break down several times. They tried to fix it, but they gave up. It seemed that they did not understand there own bot to even begin to fix it. Also if you think there is nothing in Iowa, you are right, but also wrong. We were there for 5 days, and ate out 3 meals, every day. We never ate out the same place twice, and never traveled more than 15 minutes from the hotel
I know they called that a dq but I read the game manual and didn’t see anything about the ball crossing partially into the loading station while still being held. Did I miss something? Also I don’t believe all the teams were doing it illegally at the end of the red division they were arguing it and I saw the frame by frame and some of the balls they called were legal but ones they didn’t call were illegal not because the refs were bad or biased, but just because it’s so hard to make calls in the nick of time. Our team was scoring 30 balls in practice and after spending 15 seconds on the switches it was almost a ball a second way too fast to call. I think you could set up simple laser pointers and a raspberry pi to automate this process.
I can agree that point was exaggerated, but I meant there wasn’t anything fun. There was just a few restaurants and hotels. Which for me was a big drawback.
Mentorbots - We call this the “VEX IQ” problem. It’s difficult to do much about this, which is why every year they are making more of the awards about the notebook than the bots. Innovate was created, and skills and TW 2nd place keep going further down the list… In some areas of the world, the mentality is that it’s normal for the mentors to help with a project like this. It’s just assumed.
Legal China Loading - China loading is actually really hard. When the kids do it right, it’s really kind of beautiful. I love it.
Illegal China Loading - This is the one thing the RECF and Event Partners can improve. Once at Worlds the teams could get disqualified for sending a disc over a bar instead of under it. It’s an easy call. The head ref in one division said it was a warning. Just ask your refs to follow the rules as written.
Can you imagine if they sometimes gave a basketball player three points instead of two just to be “nice”? Diluting the credibility makes fewer people want to watch and play. Credibility is why it’s worth trying.
I have nothing against China loading in principle- it’s a great design challenge.
But it’s just that it’s incredibly hard to ref consistently and the calls produce such huge points swings that I can’t imagine it will go smoothly at worlds unless they just give up on reffing it tightly at all.
I feel like division finals and dome will be how much do you push the limits of entering the loading zone early and whoever does it but quite enough to get called wins.
Yes this is exactly what I’m saying and why I think we need a rule change at the dome once all the switches are cleared I bet you they get more than a ball a second there’s no way somebody can consistently ref it and it makes the difference in finals.
We got a buzzer beater shot at Michigan sig but they said it was late, we would have went to tiebreakers in division if they had counted it but no, so we ended up getting division 2nd.
