Unable to Determine if a Violation is Match Affecting

In a scrimmage today, we had an SG6 violation occur. A red alliance mogo full of rings was dump over by a blue robot and all but 2 of the rings fell out. The red alliance lost by 22 points. The problem was, nobody knew how many rings the red alliance goal had on it. It was full, but a full goal for our robot can mean 8, 9, 10, or even 11 rings depending on how they fall on. This means, nobody knew if 6, 7, 8 , or 9 rings had been descored. If 6 or 7 rings had been descored, the violation would not be match affecting. If 8 or 9 rings had been descored, the violation would be match affecting.

How should this situation be handled if this had occurred in an actually match. Would this qualify for a replay as an extreme circumstance? Should the ref air on the side of the victimized team? I can’t seem to find anything about this in the game manual. Thank you in advance for your replies.

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This is a tricky one because there is no specific ruling on this so this will be my interpretation of the rules. If the head referee was unable to see the mobile goal due to an issue with the field, then that would allow for a replay (G20a). If they just missed it by not paying attention to it, then I think it would go to the alliance that had their rings descored. This is because of offensive teams get the benefit of the doubt (G13). Due to G13, the team that descored rings would be a defensive robot as it was possessing an opponent’s alliance goal. If the robot could also clearly not score 8 or 9 rings or clearly did not have enough rings, then this would probably go to G3 (alliance that descored rings would not be DQed). There are other interpretations that could probably end up with the team that decored getting the benefit of the doubt, so this should be made into a Q&A before an official rule is agreed upon.

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I agree that there is not really an obvious solution (not even video replay would help in this scenario :wink:). And it’s virtually impossible to keep track of rings in the heat of a match (GDC, trying to be clever making Pringle-shaped rings, turns out they’re impossible to count within a reasonable timespan without contact and close proximity). It takes me a solid 5 seconds looking at a perfectly still mogo, with nothing else moving around me, tapping each ring with my fingers to get a perfectly accurate count.

I’d say this warrants a Q&A.

Unfortunately, it seems like none of the possible rulings are good. Replays are always somewhat annoying and dishing out a win or loss to a team that didn’t deserve it is pretty bad.

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I think it will truly depend on the ref and if he wants to redo, or score as is. This has happened to us before and both of those scenarios have happened.

I couldn’t agree more, especially with ~7% of matches being replayed due to whitescreens.

I don’t think a replay would help this situation, because of the frequency that something like this happens. However, I can’t think of a better solution, so replays would probably be in my opinion the most fair option, even if I don’t personally like it. It seems better than giving a blanket ruling (like SG3) with no room for leniency and interpretation that could result in rule abuse, and that is the last thing we need now.

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