At the beginning of each Skills Match, the Robot must be placed such that it is touching the Alliance Station Alliance Starting Tile, not touching any Scoring Objects other than those permitted by , and not touching any other foam field tiles.
It is not an issue of left or right as the “Alliance Station Alliance Starting Tile” will be on the left on the red side and on the right on the blue side. The “Alliance Station Alliance Starting Tile” is the ONLY starting tile in the area of the alliance station. The alliance station is on the side farthest away from the post upon which you may hang.
This is also the ONLY tile upon which you may enter driver loads.
Ok, you are an adult. Act like one. Not trying to be rude sir, but why are you acting like a child? If your mad, you make the mature decision: calmly sort things out, without going on the internet trying to be rude. And, if you do not get your way, you get over it. Please, do not act like this. It’s a waste of time and energy.
@Powerbelly I think you touched a nerve. Was this in reference to the tournament that was being talked about on another post? I think it this person was the OP in the other post. From what I have seen on robotevents.com, they did not follow the rules at their first tournament either.
After reaching out to my contacts in the states, it seems at both events they were told and shown they were not following the rules but the EP decided to do it wrong anyway. Based on the rules, the results of both tournaments should not be used as qualifying tournaments. Fortunately, from what I have read on the forums, nobody is actually pushing for that. They just want to expand the state tournament to include the teams that were pushed out by the teams that got in through tournaments that, by rule, should not be considered qualifying tournaments.
“VRC events must meet the following criteria:”
Be listed as a VRC event with online registration hosted on www.robotevents.com.
Be an event held between June 1, 2016, and two weeks prior to the
State/Regional/Provincial Championship event for which they will qualify.
All teams participating at the event have completed their 2016-17 VRC Team registration.
Teams will not be able to register for events until their Team Registration is completed and
paid via credit card, check, or purchase order.
The event must follow the Official Rules in the Game Manual (including tournament/alliance
selection guidelines) and Tournament Manager results must be uploaded within 48 hours of
event completion.
@Elohssa that is correct. There is no effort that I am aware of to enforce the rules that would keep these teams out so long as their being in does not exclude teams that would be in if the rules were followed. The EP has said he can and is willing to handle 4 more teams without any problem. That sounds like the most reasonable solution.
We, as EP, made an honest mistake at the second tournament. The first tournament was a conscious decision. In regards to the first tournament, the regional director was present, and he approved the choices that were made that day in regards to running six alliances rather than eight. The mentor in charge had been hospitalized multiple times in the time leading up to the tournament and was not present, and very inexperienced, respectable men stepped up to try and take over while getting guidance by our regional director and other mentors. In fact, we were complimented by numerous mentors for continuing the tournament despite the setbacks, including by the mentor in this current thread. At the second tournament, multiple coaches from other teams were asked about the rule, and they all agreed with the way it was handled. The situation was that the referees were shown a rule off the forum that said SHOULD use the tile closest to the alliance station. It has already been handled by our regional director and VEX. The level of pettiness shown through the post made on this thread is honestly saddening. This is not exemplary behaviour for middle school students, high school students, and mentors.
Okay guys, there it is. It is clear that many of you are still hurting, and hoping for a changed outcome. But imagine what it takes for someone to say what this guy just did. It won’t get you more skills points, but there is no remedy the EP can offer. In your place, teams I mentor would be no happier than you are now, I know. But he can’t change it.
This is why you should be careful with careless, hurtful talk. The claim against the event was they didn’t know what they were doing. It looks like they wouldn’t disagree with that assessment, and they weren’t pretending to. They were just doing what they could to put on an event for you. Having been on that side of the fence before, I know how it feels to work and bleed over something, and be kicked for my best efforts. I know some would say cancelling an event would be preferable to holding a flawed one. That’s far too high a standard. We all just do what we can. Remember this when you’re looking to sleep late on a Saturday. Maybe next year you should look at Robotevents and see whether there’s a VEX IQ tournament you could help setup, or referee, or run the concession stand, or take registration forms, or run tournament manager. Or even just help put away the tables and chairs after the event is done. I know you don’t want to give up your Saturday. But you should consider it. That’s what these people did for you. Pay it forward.
@recker, please remember that this forum is a place where people can come to air their grievances and share the stories with peers. They come here after tournaments to gripe, blow off steam, and tell how awful their weekend was, and they’re here because the people reading it understand what they’re complaining about and how they feel. They might not get justice, but sometimes, they can get commiseration.
I am curious if you think the proposed solution of adding 4 spots to the state tournament is a good solution. I think it is better than following the official rules and making the tournament not count. I do not think team that were there or teams that were not there should suffer over the mistake.
By the way, the rule on skills does not use the word “should” but rather it says the following:
" At the beginning of each Skills Match, the Robot must be placed such that it is touching the Alliance Station Alliance Starting Tile, not touching any Scoring Objects other than those permitted by , and not touching any other foam field tiles. "
There is one area called the alliance station on each side and it is nowhere near where the post is for hanging.
Additionally, the answer on the Q&A does not say “should” but rather, it says “must” as can been seen in this answer:
“Thus you must start on an Alliance Station Alliance Starting Tile. (i.e. an Alliance Starting Tile that is adjacent to an Alliance Station) In Skills you are allowed to start on either the Red or Blue Alliance Station Starting Tile.”
I was willing to give the benefit of the doubt, but you have now come on the forum and have posted something that cannot possibly be true when you said “The situation was that the referees were shown a rule off the forum that said SHOULD use the tile closest to the alliance station.” It is possible that is what your referees told you but it simply cannot be true. I just did another check of the official Q&A and that is the only one prior to your tournament on that rule. Since your tournament, the question has been asked again and the same answer is given here:
“Thus you can only start on the Alliance Station Alliance Starting Tiles. i.e. The Alliance Starting Tiles adjacent to the Alliance Stations. You are permitted to choose between red and blue.”
As an event partner, I understand the stresses of running a tournament. We have dealt with various issues over the years. It is tough. I get it. That is not an excuse to ignore rules.
A wise man once said that if you find yourself in a hole, put down the shovel.
Just to give a bit more detail that was left out, at the first tournament, I know that there was a mentor who has run several tournaments that offered to help do the alliance selection process correctly. I have been told by multiple people that he was threatened physically for offering to help in that regard.
As for the second tournament, they were not shown anything that said “should” use a particular tile, as that does not exist. They were shown the rule and the ruling from the Q&A that are both abundantly clear yet they made the decision to continue to do things wrong on the last day to qualify for state and four teams (on from the EP’s school) made skills scores that were barely enough to qualify for state and would knock out others from qualifying.
Nobody is recommending the event get disqualified as a qualifying event even though that is what the rules call for, but rather, that there be spots added so that nobody else get eliminated by scores that were obtained when the rules were not being followed. The EP for the state tournament is fine with that solution. Hopefully, that is what will happen.
I also happen to know there were other issues at the event but that is a whole other conversation for someone else to have.
I have no opinion on the situation. I have no more interest in discussing this because it is nothing more than “he said, she said”. VEX and our regional director will make the decision that they believe best resolves the situation.
@kypyro I just re-read your comments and looked at them a bit more closely. There is quite a bit of context that you are missing.
I agree that it was a positive step to admit the error. On the other hand, he was shown the error early on in the tournament and continued the error which could effect teams not even at his tournament. He later tries to justify it by saying his refs were shown something from the Q&A that said it “SHOULD” be done a certain way when in fact, the only think on the official Q&A as well as the actual rule says “MUST”. There has been a long history of skill not being run correctly at this venue that pre-dates this particular EP.
There was nothing careless about what I said. I know for a fact that other EPs were there and volunteered to help do it correctly. I also know from multiple people who were there from multiple organizations that one of the EPs that offered to help do it correctly (according to the rules) was threatened physically at the first tournament. If, in fact, the RECF rep was there and said it was OK to run alliance selection different than the rules say, then the RECF rep is also wrong. The rules are very clear. It would not have been difficult to do it correctly. Everyone was willing to pitch in to help it go correctly. TM defaults to it being done correctly. Affirmative action had to be taken to do it wrong.
As an EP, I have done this. I have run tournaments with few volunteers and I do not get the building until after 9:30 PM the night before. I have been up all night getting things ready for the next day and been there until past midnight the night of the tournament getting the building back to where it needs to be. I have helped at other events as well. Over the years we have developed more volunteers for our events and we do not have our teams compete in our own tournaments any more as I need them for volunteers and it allows us to be a truly neutral site for a tournament.
I believe I have been very measured in what I have said. Facts are stubborn things. As I have said on multiple occasions, I do not want any of the teams penalized. I do not want teams who got their spots at this event excluded but I also do not want teams that would otherwise be in if all the rules were followed to be excluded.
I am hoping the the RECF rep will go along with the solution that has been presented to him by multiple people including the EP for the state tournament and add the spots. That is the most equitable thing to do for all of the students.
I also know there were some bad feelings over what some would call racial slurs ( I would call them ethnic slurs) that were directed by teams from the host school toward students from another school. From what I have heard, the mentor did handle that issue and pulled a team from alliance selection because of it. Bravo to the mentor (who is also the EP) for that.
