unofficial response to "Bad Refs/<SG10> Clarification"

@7447C Twisted Wire
Obviously, the refs were wrong to do what they did. There is, of course, nothing that can be done to correct it now. Hopefully, this will serve as something that will help refs at worlds. I do have some questions.

  1. Did this effect the outcome of the match? (Who won? Would the other alliance have won had this not been done?) I realize that the answer may not be clear cut, but was the score really close? Was it within 4-8 points?)

  2. Assuming it was really close or even clearly match effecting, did you address it with the refs right after the match in a respectful way?

  3. Assuming you did that without a satisfactory outcome, did you address it with the head ref right away in a respectful way? What about the event partner?

Of course nothing excuses bad refereeing, but we must also keep in mind that the only compensation these refs get is some free food on the day of the event and not much time to eat it.

No, I did not notice it until I was reviewing the footage. I wanted to make sure that what they did was incorrect. The main reason that this concerns me is that I believe that she might be biased against some teams.

That is something to discuss with the event partner. Not really anything can be done in this forum. Video reviews at events are prohibited.

@7447C Twisted Wire After watching the video, it is not clear that the woman ref was being biased. As a matter of fact, it is not clear that what ultimately happened even hurt your alliance. It may have actually helped them.

It is not even clear that the woman ref did anything wrong. She may have gotten the other star and given it to the other ref to replace at the end of the match. He may have misunderstood and that could be why he replaced it during the match. He should not have done that even if instructed to do so assuming he knew the rules, but he did.

In the words of a famous Disney song, it just might be time to “Let it go.”

By the way, did you win the match? What was the final score?

Honestly cases like this are the reason why video footage should be taken and reviewed if any disputes arise. While this outcome didn’t really affect the match, I’m pretty sure there have been other instances where refs and other officials make mistakes or wrong decisions or break rules on video. Some will admit their mistake, and some will hide behind the “no video review” rule to justify that they are correct and you are not, because the rule protects them. In professional sports and racing, there are video cameras at every angle to capture every moment of the game. If something is unclear or needs review, officials will examine the footage and make a correct decision. Just because the ref didn’t see a personal foul in basketball doesn’t mean it didn’t happen and therefore doesn’t matter. If an accident in racing is unclear, stewards review footage before calling a decision. If a ref makes a seemingly bad call in basically any professional sport the footage will be reviewed and a correct call bemade. I understand that this really doesn’t matter in this hobby of ours, but it should at least be implemented at large tournaments and at official tournaments. It really irritates teams when incorrect actions are made and they can’t prove that it was incorrect despite there being indisputable evidence that something was indeed incorrect; and frankly, this rule only benefits refs that make biased, blatantly wrong, or unknowing decisions and arent willing to admit fault.

How exactly do I figure out who the event partner is?

Go to and find the event under the Robot Competitions tab. Every event there is a primary contact for the event and a secondary one. You can email them or call.

On you may need to set the date of the event to see it appear in the filtered list.

The issue with allowing “video review” is that every person in the audience will be filming and now the ref or the EP would have to watch every match that somebody doesn’t like a call. Which would extend the length of an event by a long time. This coming from a state head ref that strives to know the rules. If is not brought to my attention in a timely fashion, i.e 2 matches, then it is hard to remember what happened. Video review would make the current match that is ready to play have to wait so that we can look at something in the past and then decipher what action to take. I do approve of the no video rule but I do not hide behind it, I use it to keep the event running smooth.