Unofficial Response to Engulfing opponents Mobile goals

[536Mentor]

The OP stated:

We were at a competition on 1/21 in La Jolla where team 404Z’s robot lost every match with the exception of one. Their robot scored zero points during matches causing all their alliances to lose. Their ranking at the end was 23rd out of 28 teams. Fast forward to the elimination matches where the number one team picked them as their third alliance. Only during the elimination round did they demonstrate the capability of their robot to capture and engulf mobile goals. I have two questions, 1. Are alliances allowed to lose on purpose. 404Z demonstrated during elimination that they could have very effectively helped wins matches all along and they chose to lose and cause their alliances to lose. And 2. Is capturing and engulfing an opponents mobile goals within the accepted rules of the competition? I have attached pictures of their robot. They were with the red alliance and quickly engulfed two of the blue teams mobile goals such that blue could not score.

I will answer #2 first. Yes, engulfing your opponents mobile goals is legal provided you do not violate Rule <SG6> which states:

<SG6> Robots may not intentionally grasp, grapple or attach to any Field Elements or the opposing Mobile Goals. Strategies with mechanisms that react against multiple sides of a Field Element in an effort to latch onto said Field Element are prohibited. The intent of this rule is to prevent Teams from both unintentionally damaging the field and/or from anchoring themselves to the field. Minor violations of this rule that do not affect the Match will result in a warning. Match Affecting offenses
will result in a Disqualification. Teams that receive multiple warnings may also receive a Disqualification at the Head Referee’s discretion.

As for #1, no there is NO rule against it. But, in my opinion, it is extremely disrespectful and very poor sportsmanship to intentionally lose matches. If it could be proven that they did, in fact, intentionally lose for the purpose of being picked by the #1 Alliance in order to win the championship as the OP seems to believe, as an event partner, I would have serious talks with the coach/mentor of the team and could go so far as DQing them from the entire event. An action like this, if true, is extremely disrespectful of each of the alliance partners that they had during the qualifying rounds and, again my opinion, runs totally counter to the ethos of VEX Robotics as I have understood it for the past 11 years. Or for that matter the ethos of any sporting event! If I caught any of my teams intentionally losing a match, I would pull them aside, discuss it with them and then withdraw them from the alliance selection.
Granted, it would be difficult to prove.

[damercerterker]

if you’re going to respond please link the post you’re responding to

[Cmills1352]

Can you be more specific.

[damercerterker]

^ also this

[536Mentor]

if you’re going to respond please link the post you’re responding to

The link was titled

Engulfing opponents Mobile Goals

as the title of my post stated. Plus I quoted the OP exactly. Here is the link if you want it.

[mattjiang]

To clarify: As part of one of the allied teams with 404z, I can tell you that although I do not know whether or not 404Z lost intentionally during qualifications, it wasn’t to be picked by the number one seed. 2496N had no previous affiliation with the team, and the decision to choose the team was down to adequate scouting during the qualification matches and was made on the spot. My own team had a match with 404z, we lost 77-78.

[Poseyhead]

There is another post where I have responded to this discussion, and I will say here essentially the same thing. We lost because our driver had never driven before, and the nature of a defensive robot relies on its alliance to outscore the opponents. We did not lose on purpose and to be perfectly honest, we did not expect to be chosen for the elimination rounds. If anyone has further questions, please PM me.