Hey guys! It’s Christian from Murrieta Mesa High School Rambotics Team. I have a proposition…no…a challenge for any robotic engineer out there that thinks they have what it takes to help me create a new lift type.
Although we have all heard of the claw arm, the 4 bar, the 6 bar, the elevator lift, the reverse 4 bar, the scissor lift, and the chain and pulley I believe we can create a new type of lift design especially for this year’s game, Toss Up.
With thorough investigation and testing, I believe none of the lift types listed above meet the requirements for us robotic engineers and our robots for Toss up.
I know what you guys are thinking. “Christian, you can’t just come up with a new lift design!” I know I can’t do it alone…I need whoever believes they can help me create a lift design that can change the game of Vex Robotics forever…
List your guys’ ideas PLEASE!
I want a robot that can do everything for Toss Up and so far the most important need is the lift design.
Multiple lifts that you mentioned above work perfect for this years game. I would go with a 4-Bar, 6-Bar, Chain Bar, Scissor, or Linear lift. You can make those work
So you want us to design your robot for you? Then it would be the Vex Community’s robot, not yours. Think, research, etc. Google is your friend. There are some tutorials on the basics on youtube. Here’s a link to a simple bot design. This guy has a few helpful videos on how to build a basic robot.
Firstly, I admire your desire to innovate and be different, thats a great quality, but before you start designing anything, you need a better list of requirements.
What exactly does your lift need to do to do everything?
What criteria does it need to follow?
BE VERY SPECIFIC
Again, I like that you want to try something new, but I have a feeling that the most you’ll get out of the community is some suggestions.
Rather than pose a challenge for someone to design a new lift, why not design it yourself?
Hi Christian,
Welcome to the forum – you may not be aware but it is inappropriate to post the same thing several times in different forums. I’ve deleted the duplicates.
You may also find that most VEX Robotics Competition teams won’t just give you information on a new design. The challenge you’ve issued to other teams, asking them to give you the perfect design for VEX Toss Up is identical to the challenge that the REC Foundation has issued to ALL teams.
Everyone is working to come up with the perfect design, not just asking others to come up with it for them.
I urge you to look to the world around you for inspiration, and try different things in your efforts to find a great solution to the game challenge.
-Linkages. Linkages are wonderful things. They can produce incredibly complex motion from simple rotary inputs. And yet in the VRC world, 99% of possible linkage designs are ignored, in favor of the special case grashof parallelogram 4 bar linkage, and its 6, 8, and so on bar cousins. Don’t limit yourself to parallel motion. Create a 4 bar test rig out of some VEX metal, and just play around with the incredible range of motions you can get by tweaking the bar geometry. Find yourself a linkage atlas that describes the possibilities, or a linkage simulation software package. The possibilities are quite great. Here’s just one example of a creative VRC linkage from the good 'ol days.
-Explore the world around you. Look at mechanical devices you use every day, robots from other competitions, and so on. You’ll find incredible amounts of inspiration.
-I find it rare that great robots are designed by breaking it down into rigid subsystems like “lift,” “grabber,” etc. Great design comes by elegantly combining systems into something seamless. Don’t think in terms of “how can I build the best lift,” think in terms of “how can I build the best robot, and what lift-like elements might it have to give it an advangage.” And the answer to the second part may very well be none.
I agree with 1412E, that you need to better define your objectives. I’d love to do what I can to help though, I’m teamless at the moment.
Thank you everyone that has posted on the thread, yes I am new to the forums hahaha so I was not aware. I guess I should have known that “spamming” was not allowed.
I was roaming the internet for a good lift design but I kept on getting the same things over and over again (4 Bar, 6 Bar, etc). I guess that’s not what I was looking for…
And of course you guys wouldn’t have designed the robot for me XD hahaha Where’s the fun in that?! I was searching for other engineers to work with and get some prototypes going but it looks like everyone is satisfied with following the heard of sheep
If there still is anyone out there that believes that they can recreate wheel (metaphorically of course! Some people take things literally haha) then I am still up to be working with them!
I would love to create something new and not just readjust old designs even if they are satisfactory to others’ expectations. I’m guessing the reason why Vex has the Design awards is to see who can create something new and not just something that is satisfactory…
Thanks for the help and I’ll see you guys at the games
Don’t design a new system for the sake of being new; design a robot that is the best possible option for playing the game effectively. The Design Award is given for a thorough and well-thought-out design process. “I want to be different” is not a design rationale that will be awarded by judges.
Create and Amaze Awards do recognize unique robots, but a robot usually is not defined by one mechanism that is different from other robots, but does the same task. Usually, a unique robot is unique because the tasks it performs are different from the “herd of sheep.” Just look at the Green Eggs, they are a prime example of unique robot designs. Many of the mechanisms on their robots had been used commonly before (Chain elevator lift, needle intake, and tank-drive in Round Up; Chain-bar lift, pneumatic claw, and X-holonomic in Gateway; 8-motor drive with transmission, descoring roller, and elastic 4-bar in Sack Attack). What made those robots unique was the way that those mechanisms were used and put together to form a high-performing, strategic robot that could play the game more effectively than other teams.
Someone around here has a quote in their signature that says “Take the best in the world that exists and improve upon it. If it does not exist, design it.” I think that quote applies here because you should only need to design a new system when existing systems aren’t the best option for your task. Many teams use the “standard” lift designs because they see those as the best option for playing the game. If you don’t think that they are the best options, think about what weaknesses make them unsuitable for this game. Then, design a lift that performs their task without those weaknesses.
Good point Raptors
Well I’m all for redesigns and adjustments to other lifts systems. I’ll take a 2nd look at them and see if I can think “out of the box”
It would still be cool to come up with something that could have an advantage over the other robots by using common lift designs. I guess thats where ingenuity takes over.
The reason why you tend to see the same mechanisms over and over again, is that they are tried and true. Tested thoughout many years of not only VEX and other Robotics competitions, but engineering in general.
Another reason is that coming up with new linkages is not always an easy thing to do, there are literally hundreds and thousands of different arms linkages and joint systems that teams can use so long as their creativity is not limited. There have been a few lifts that I have been wanting to build in VEX simply because they are cool, would they be practical for competition probably not.
As much as I like to agree with part of this statement, I will disagree with another. “Being different” is exactly the premis that Aperture Robotics, and NAR was founded on. We stand nothing for the conventional, in how we opperate, design, manufacture, program, and function over all as a team. We don’t necisarrily design the “best way” we design the smart way. Rooster^3 is a perfect example of this mentality. Could we have designed a dual trough blocker? Yes, but was it was smarter for us to do so with our overall strategy, It allowed us to control the flow of matches, considering everything fell into place. You weren’t playing VEX’s game you were playing Our game. This is one of the many reasons we made it to second (along with a little bit of luck)
Being different is good, and I plan on producing a very different robot this year, along with many other NAR robots. We won’t make perfect bots, there is no way to do so, but we will make some of the most interesting, unique robots of the season I hope.
Although I am not in the business of designing lifts, and would rather stick to the 6 or 4 bar, I did a quick search on youtube and found this great linkage:
At first it looks like a 4-bar, but moves like a linear lift. Great work 1508a!
