I have only ever declined once, when I had asked a team for an alliance during scouting, but they respectfully declined, so we made an agreement to go with our sister team. but then, during alliance selection the team that declined us then invited us for an alliance. but even though they were op I wasn’t about to ditch my sister team like that so I declined. seems to me that teams not scouting at all is a large part of all the declining. People, solidify your alliances BEFORE alliance selection, not during.
last year for MS vex worlds divisions playoff, a team got rejected at least 10 times in a row
It is clearly stated, but I find most participants don’t study the rules like they should. From the rules:
Alliance Selection Process
• Every Team will choose one (1) Student to act as a Team Representative.
o These representatives will proceed to the playing field at the designated time to represent their Teams in the Alliance Selection.
• There will be eight (8) to sixteen (16) Alliances formed in the Alliance Selection, depending on the size of the event.
• In order of tournament ranking, the Team Representative of the highest ranked Team not already in an Alliance will be asked to step forward as an Alliance Captain to invite another available Team to join their Alliance.
• A Team is available if they are not already part of an Alliance, or have not already declined an Alliance invitation.
o If the Team accepts, it is moved into that Alliance.
o If a Team declines an invitation, they CANNOT be invited into another Alliance, but are still available to select their own Alliance if the opportunity arises.
o If a Team declines, the Alliance Captain from the inviting Team must then extend another invitation.
• This process will continue until all Alliance Captains have been designated and chosen one Alliance partner.
• Any Teams remaining after the final Alliance’s choice will not compete in the Elimination Matches.
At every event that we run, we clearly explain the concept of declining and the effect it will have. In my opnion, that should be done at every event, both for the benefit of the teans but also so the spectators understand as well.
I’m convinced this is mostly it. Another factor is the weirdness this year with SP points. If you only play 5/6 matches, certain less capable teams can easily get a favorable schedule. AP points are great, but then the SP points can mess with the rankings.
Exactly, also explain that it IS ok to decline. It doesn’t mean that the teams are being mean, just that they have a different strategy.
This. Some people take being declined personally when it is nothing personal. Teams just have a different plan they are trying to implement.
Good point, I’ll make sure I add that to my “alliance selection” spiel this Saturday,
Yeah, it’s pretty easy - especially this year. “Sometimes a team with a good shooting robot may want a good cap robot for a partner and vice versa. Sometimes a team thinks they pair well with a different robot because their autonomous programs compliment each other so they don’t collide”
(I always like using the autonomous example because then when a cap robot chooses a cap robot, it gives the audience something else to think about."
Were you at North Texas States? Cause the same thing happened with the 3rd alliance getting declined 5 times.
I think there is some responsibility to bear on the event as well as the team. When an event is well run, the people on the field give out instructions and clearly make an effort to make sure the teams understand what they are doing.
But… teams need to understand the rules as well. They really need to read the game rules and understand what is up. These events are getting more intense every year, and the competition at higher levels is getting stronger and stronger. Theres probably something that needs to be distributed to the teams at the start of the season from Vex/RECF, especially newer teams (1-3 years old) in emphasizing understanding the rules. At the beginning of the season, its understandable, but after the first month or so, I would hope teams are getting it, but that didn’t seem to be the case.
There are more declines this year because there are multiple aspects of this year’s game. If one team’s strength is ball launching, then they might want to be with a team that has the strength of doing caps. If a team declines, then they cannot be picked by anyone else in the Alliance Selection. If a team declines, the only way the will be in the playoffs is if they pick someone. The main reason is that they want a variety of strengths in their alliance.
I’m not sure. I never saw caps scored on posts as a legitimate strategy at the North Texas Regional.
It was done a couple of times in eliminations, but mostly by teams who knew they had turned all the flags and just wanted to keep scoring.
At North Texas Regional this year, #1 picked #6 and #2 picked #4. Both of these teams had clearly done some scouting. The #3 team went down the line, getting declined by #5, #7, #8, #9, #10, until finally #11 accepted. The only declines I’ve seen crazier than these was at the 2016 US Open.
I don’t think North Texas Regional has ever had 5 declines for 1 team. It may have partly been because of the competition having 16 alliances, meaning #10 was guaranteed to make it to eliminations even though they declined. It definitely did throw a curveball for the teams that declined because they could no longer pick the teams they wanted to.
The 3rd alliance lost in the quarterfinals to the 6th alliance.
Delmarva Regional on Saturday, High School Division
Alliance 1 picks Alliance 5 (sister team)
Alliance 2 picks 4,6,7,8 all declines then has a discussion with Alliance 3 and the hook up.
Next alliance picks their sister team and was declined. Next team they offered was also declined.
Farther down (it was an 11 alliance selection), there were two more declines.
8 Declines – Just amazing (Alliance 1 won the event)