I was wondering what turn around time people are using this year?
This would be our first event of the year so we want to have a nicely run event without running behind and skipping lunch like we did previously.
We have 2 divisions with at least 2 fields each division. Each division is independent on its own Tournament Manager and has its own referee set and field resetters. We will probably not have a separate set of counters to let the refs move on to the next field and get the matches going. They will be stuck counting at the end of each match before they can move on.
I was thinking 6:30 turn around time for the first three hours and 6:00 for the final 2 hours. That breaks down to 2:00 of actual match time, 2:00 for counting and scoring, 1:00 for start of match hyjinx of controller verification and corralling people to the field, and a 1:30 pad for in between auton and drivers, determining close autonomous winners, explanations for DQ’s, and pow-wow time for what may have gone on that match.
By having separate scorers, we could reduce the 2:00 for counting and scoring. 30 seconds will come form the pad and start of match hyjinx times.
Every event i’ve been to this year (single division & one field) There has been a scheduled 6 minute turn around time with every single one. Generally this has been with two refs who also act as scorers. This worked fine.
In a two division two fields each type event i would have the usual 3 refs at the field who move between the fields. If the field resetters you speak of stay behind at the field to score the match while the next one has it’s hyjinx and then starts. Then get the teams that played on the field to reset it. You could get the turn around time to be 4 minutes with this i think. However you will tire the referees doing this. It really depends on the number of volunteers you have. The more you do the more you can decrease the turn around time.
With a two field set you should be able to run 4:30 match times without a problem. For league-play events this year we were running 5:30 cycle times on a single field without a problem (teams that just finished playing reset the field).
4 to 6 minutes has worked well at the events I’ve been to this year. They’ve had two fields and only a handful of referees, so that should be similar to what you are describing since you are keeping the divisions separate. Although it seems like large events always have additional problems.
If each set of 2 fields has 2 scorers (for redundancy) and 2 refs then 4 minutes is achievable with 2 fields, but you will also want one person to get teams ready once they arrive at the field (for example making sure that their robots are legal so that the refs can start the match). That job can be given to the scorers provided they aren’t busy resetting. At scrimmages we get teams to reset their own fields; at Nationals we often have younger volunteers who can do it. Field resetting volunteers don’t need to be impartial and don’t need any prior experience or skills. It’s usually not too much of a struggle to find people who will do it and it’s a bit of a waste to have someone doing it who would be capable of doing a refereeing role.
To run a 4 minute cycle on 2 fields, we usually require:
2 refs
2 scorers (essentially a ref, but doesn’t watch for rule violations within games)
1 queuer (person who goes and calls the teams because they are being slow >_> )
1 announcer
1 person who pushes the start button and enters scores
a 2:15 cycle was possible in Skyrise with 4 fields per division (though I would definitely NOT recommend it unless you really know what you’re doing)
We have done the following at our events: (per 2 fields)
3 refs (nice to have 4th for relief), one of whom stays behind at the end of a match to score while the other two start the next match.
2 scorers, one using a tablet and one using paper for back-up.
Each field has a several Queuing Assistants (who also have a check-list to run through at the queuing table to help teams make sure their robot is ready, particularly for early season events) that make sure that the proper teams are Queued for the next match and send the teams to their proper field when signaled by the scorekeeper that the field is reset and ready to go.
Approximately 4-6 field re-setters (middle schoolers make great field re-setters)
A bin outside each high goal for the re-setters to collect missed shots.
Boards that hold the 24 match loads (the 8 pre-loads are stacked on top).
An announcer
At least one computer operator.
We have been able to run 4 minute match cycles and actually get ahead.
We consistently get in 7-9 qualifying rounds in for events as large as 40-48 teams.
We host our state tournament and will run two divisions of at least 24 teams per division and easily expect at least 10 qualifying rounds. In this case, each division will have a division manager who supervises the entire process in their division to make sure things move smoothly.
All the CA State championships and Worlds’ events I’ve been to have run 3min. match times. It really depends on how comfortable you are running a tournament. I’ve done 3 min. match cycles with 3 fields (no rest for the wicked) but 2 fields with 4-5 min. match cycles also works fine. Usually, anything longer than 3 min. match cycles tends to put you ahead of schedule, assuming everything goes well. The biggest time eater I’ve seen this season is:
counting balls
resetting the field
Make sure you have enough field reset and you’ll be gucci
It depends on the number of fields and field resetters you have. With any number of fields, you should get at least 4-5 per field if you want to have a 4 minute cycle (please don’t do anything less unless you have a legion of resetters who can finish in a couple seconds). I recommend at least 5-6 minutes, especially if you have fewer field resetters.
You can do 2:15. We haven’t done it before and the setup is pretty intense, but we did 2 divisions at last year’s NZ Nationals with a 4:30 match time per division, and we managed to do it without matches overlapping which demonstrates that 2:15 is definitely possible.
We have about 8 hours of qualification matches at Nationals, so with that cycle time our maximum division capacity would be 85 teams (with 10 matches each).
Was that with Nothing But Net? It seems that it takes a lot longer to reset the field for NBN because there’s so many balls to count and sort and the piles on the field take forever to settle down. Last year we had no problem at our tournament doing a short cycle time for Skyrise, but for NBN we increased the cycle and it still wasn’t enough.
How many field resetters and fields did you have at NZ nationals?
We haven’t tried to work out yet how many resetters you need for a 4.5 minute reset time on two fields, but whatever amount of people that is I’m confident that we’ll have enough. More so than any other job, field resetting can be done by anybody. The necessary skills can be learned on the day, they can be any age and you don’t have to worry about them favoring certain teams. If you’re short of field resetters and you ask the teams for volunteers you’ll probably get people.
We have 3 more events before nationals to experiment with cycle times and volunteer requirements. I’m optimistic that with enough resetters it can be done quickly.
The quickest way we have found to count the balls is just to put them in the box they came in - based on the pattern they will naturally stack in you can see how many there are without counting them individually.
It happened pretty consistently after the first half-day or so once I realised there was no way we could keep them not-overlapping and on schedule.
It may not be an issue (depending on what you want the event to be like) but I’m just pointing out that your statement about being able to do a 2:15 without overlapping wasn’t true.
