@lacsap Tabor has been helping / mentoring my team for a couple months now.
and?
He knows the ropes about how to get team funding. If the barrier to entry this pilot year is beyond the means of the team this season, wait until next season.
His arguments regarding cost of development and roll out is specious. RECF has been transparent about the program costs. So at this point it is an informed decision to participate in the pilot or not.
I’m not really sure Tabor’s position as a competitor or mentor is really relevant to this discussion about VAIC. Even if he isn’t competing, his points are still valid and are on topic, and should be considered.
I strongly disagree with these statements. The RECF has not had much transparency at all when it comes to VAIC; this thread itself is a testament to that. For three weeks I in vain tagged RECF personnel, and even emailed them, respectfully asking that they answer the simple question laid out in the OP:
What exactly comes with VAIC registration?
Even now, after registration has been opened (and I see that at least 8 high school teams have already paid), we have almost no knowledge of what hardware actually comes in the kit, and still only have quite vague knowledge of what software comes with it. No one can make an informed decision to participate without that information.
If someone said that you could buy a car with 4 wheels, an engine, and a steering wheel, would you be able to make an informed decision whether or not to buy the car? Of course not, you would need more information. This is the simple task that I set out to accomplish when I started this thread: To obtain more information about the details of VAIC such that myself and others could be able to make an informed decision whether or not to participate. As of now, sufficient information has not been given by the RECF.
To once again reiterate the question posed by my original post, can the RECF please give us a comprehensive list of what is included in the VAIC registration kit, including both hardware and software?
The point that Tabor is making is not about the budget that a team may or may not have, but rather that many teams (especially VEXU teams) already have much of the hardware that comes in the kit, or would otherwise end up shelving many of the components in favor of their own components. The issue is about redundancy and about teams being forced to buy hardware/software that they will not use.
Pretty much sums it up - if you do not have enough information that you can get through your RSM, then do not participate in the pilot.
Tabor’s arguments were that the development costs were exaggerated and others bore the cost of some of the underlying subsystems. My question was what was his skin in the game - was told “mentor” for a team. Well then, Tabor has enough know how to communicate with RSM and fundraise.
As for “enough gear” well play VRC - it is a known.
The biggest point - this is a pilot - it is a risky venture with many unknowns. Not a normal space, but one that will help define what robotics competition may be. It is not for everyone. Harder to commit with pandemic.
Please pardon my opinion based on half an hour of reading the law online, but isn’t that technically in violation of the 1975 Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act? Reprogramming doesn’t damage the device.
Depends - you can reprogram my heating system to run continuously to dire consequences … (just as an example)…
Yes, I agree that there are many unknowns, such as the number of competitions that will be held, how many teams will compete, etc. These are unknowns that teams who decide to participate in the pilot must accept.
However, the information that we are requesting is not included in those unknowns. Things like what hardware is in the kit or what software is included are known to the RECF. How else could they have already purchased and stored enough kits for all VAIC teams? Surely this is a known factor the the RECF. I really don’t see how it is too hard to simply provide us with information that they already have.
What does your RSM say?
This is the proper interface to answer most of these questions during a pilot phase.
My RSM is out of town and unavailable. I reached out to Jim Crane both here and through email over the past 3 weeks and have yet to receive any kind of response. Others have reached out to their RSMs and no more detail has been revealed aside from what @nickmertin stated in his post yesterday.
My understanding is there are already 50 VAIC HS teams registered. The capacity of the pilot.
You can still apply, but my understanding it may be a waitlist situation where entities signed up but due to covid-19 restrictions may not be able to participate.
I have no skin in the game - MS would not do well in VAIC in my area 
I am very confused how this is relevant to the topic at hand.
There are 50 Teams at the HS level that have been accepted, yes. Only ~8 have actually registered and payed…
to my knowledge MS isnt even allowed to be competing in this.
Also this is veering off topic I feel.
The topic is about costs - there are real costs to RECF to run the pilot - I think most are spelled out. Tabor question why it is that cost and proposed lower costs. … I question why he was pushing for lower costs. Told he was mentor to a team.
Bottom line there is a cost to participate - RECF/VEX spelled out items that are covered in the registration and what you get.
Some may want lower cost because they already have that part - it just does not work that way - I do not ask for discounts because I have tools in my shop. In this case RECF/VEX assembled a package for the pilot and need to cover costs.
So I think there is as much information as needed publicly to make informed decision to apply to participate in the pilot or not. Any specifics at the point (negotiating package price) should be directed to their RSM.
Still on topic
Cool you have access to RECF accounting system - because what is reported on robot events.com is not yet completed synced this past season! But yes RECF has a list of 50 teams ready to go. If some drop, then apply, you will likely be waitlisted until spots free up.
Yes I know MS are not part of VAIC - it would be a stretch for them.
I do not have access to their accounting system, I do however have access to a HS team that received the email, and the instructor has yet to go through and finish setting up the team and getting it fully registered, we do not appear on the map as we have not registered fully… The map showed that only 3 teams had registered as of the morning of the 6th.
None of the members nor instructor has a complete list of what is to be included in the VAIC kit, and the photo mentioned in the OP is non-official list of parts.
Where? If I missed something like that I would very much like to know.
In your initial post that Dan confirmed was correct and you marked as a solution to this thread.
yup - the systems are not synced - our RSM says two teams in MA - but I do not see them on the system yet. I am guessing it is processing time between paperwork, district check issuing …
not an exact science - so I would not go and say only 8 teams
Right, 21 days after the post was made Dan posted confirming the list.
Until Dan posted two days ago this list was pure speculation and no reasonable person would have used it to make a $2500 decision.