I posted about this above,
given that this wouldn’t be considered emergency circumstances, they have no jurisdiction
Edit: I accidentally replied to the wrong post, this is the post I was replying to
Just a note, “choice” is a really poor choice of words here, because being transgender isn’t a choice. I’m not assuming you meant anything by it, but words carry a lot of weight with this topic, so try to choose them carefully.
Here @DanMantz let me see if I can help you. This is the kind of response I think you could have made, understanding of course moving venues is not feasible at all.
I am saddened that recent action by the state of Texas is making many students feel unsafe attending the World Championship event in Texas. I understand the trans experience is already incredibly difficult and I disagree with the state of Texas making it harder. Moving venues is impossible at this time, and I still wish to host the best event for as many of the students as possible. I do however agree that even a single student not coming out of fear for their parents being investigated for child abuse is too many. To that effect I am promising 3 things in response.
- The RECF is committed to helping with legal matters should any parent be investigated for child abuse because their trans child attended the world championship.
- We are writing a letter to the governor saying we are saddened by his recent statement and that it gives you pause bringing your huge event to Texas in the future.
- We will be providing pro LGBTQ pins/banners/etc for the purpose of visually showing support for people at the world championship.
It validates the experience of the students afraid to come to worlds. It shows you disagree with the governors decision and you want him to change it. It also helps lessen the fear students and parents have of attending. I personally find it unlikely a visiting family will actually be investigated for this so it seems within the power of the RECF to commit to help in the unlikely event something does happen.
Yes, a note like this would be reassuring, and the actions described would help to bring about change.
I am so saddened by the voices of some on this thread who seem to think there is no point trying to change the way LGBTQ+ people are being treated. To those of you expressing that attitude, I ask you - Was there no point trying to change the racist laws that kept Black Americans from voting, or attending college, or owning property, or using the same bathroom as a white person? Was there no point in trying to change the sexist laws that said women (your great-grandmothers, perhaps!) couldn’t vote, or get a bank loan without their husband’s approval, or serve in the military, or go to medical school, or make decisions about their own health? A big reason we have Black students and girls in VEX, today, is because people who are not Black or female joined with those who are and took actions - like economic boycotts and protests - to call attention to what was wrong in society and demanded that it be changed. And they prevailed. And they always will, as long as they are brave enough to stand up for what is right. It is not right to accuse parents of LGBTQ+ youth of “child abuse” for allowing them to be on the outside who they are on the inside.
You asked if I would give up going to Worlds or participating in VEX? If I thought it would help put pressure on people in power to end an evil and unjust situation? Yes, absolutely. You know what they say: Freedom isn’t free!
I think we all agree that it is important for students to be safe at events.
Please remember that when you are discussing any contentious political topic that multiple viewpoints exist and not everyone will hold your position.
PLEASE, keep the VEX Robotics Competition about robotics. This should be a competition in which any student of the appropriate age can compete WITHOUT REGARD for gender, nationality, religion, or any other measure. There are many places to make political statements. This should be neutral ground where students of all viewpoints can work together on an issue that interests all of them.
The other viewpoint to the one Tabor posted is that not all students should be safe at robotics events, and that it is fine for Worlds to be located in a place which is decidedly not a neutral ground, but is instead ground actively hostile towards a certain already vulnerable subset of competitors.
Some people arent saying that people should try change the laws and make the world a better place but remember this thread its call will trans students feel safe at the 2022 vex world championship, not how can we change the laws in Texas. i totally understand that you want to make change in a community but we went from talking about VEX worlds to talking about how to change Texas laws. i get we want comfort and security for all students at this years worlds. People in this thread are not saying there is no point in changing the way LGBTQ+ people are treated, we are just saying that this thread is talking about making VEX worlds a safer place, not how can we change the entire dynamic of the community in which we are going to. We are just trying to say “keep it robot related”. this is a vex website, trying to fix vex problems for vex students. What your saying is not wrong or irrevevent, just we are getting way too poloitical in a educational robotics forum.
Please, PM me im offending anyone. im just trying to make sure this stays as apolotical as possible.
Pretty direct link in my mind:
- Vex Worlds is in Texas
- Texas politicians have made members of OUR robot community feel unsafe by threatening their loved ones with violence.
It is impossible to keep Vex “robot related” when Vex is a “student-oriented program”. At least one of our community members feels so threatened, that they were not even comfortable posting their concerns to a relatively anonymous forum that they asked someone else to post on their behalf.
To expand on this point, it is the (and I know some of you will likely hate this word) privilege of those who are not actually affected by the “culture war”, myself included, to be able to simply say “let’s keep this X related and keep politics out of it.” It does not follow us, it does not find its way into other aspects of our daily lives, it is simply “politics.”
If you take issue with the presence of pride flags dotted around something you want to keep “apolitical,” or discussions of politics in some way impacting your daily life, use that experience of politics intruding in your regular life as an exercise in empathy for what it must be like to be in a state that says that your parents affirming your identity is child abuse, for your very identity to be political.
Can I ask the end goal here? You are fighting for LGBTQ+ equality at this year’s Vex Worlds. makes sense. But why are you going on here? If it is true that you’re not trying to get specificly with Vex officials to fix the problem because it is not the Vex officials you have a problem with, it’s Texas politicians. How is going on a “relatively anonymous” forum, arguing with someone like me about what is politics and what is not going to fix the problem? How likely is it that a Texas government official will stumble upon this and say " ok I see the problem, let’s fix it"? You are talking on a forum that is generally designed to get solutions to robot-related problems. What can any of us do to fix the problem? This isn’t a coding or building issue. This is a cultural problem that isn’t an easy fix. We ordinary users can’t do much about it. We can only share opinions and sympathy. The wide-scale change you are looking for isn’t going to happen here. If you are looking for people to go to for help, go to the higher up. Owners of Vex. Event partners. Heck, send letters, emails, and social media posts to the Texas government themselves. I just feel like this is an argument of opinions and people sharing stories and sympathizing about others’ problems. Tell me if I’m wrong, but I see no end goal in these later posts except the fact of setting people in their place. I am a supporter of LGBTQ+, BLM, and pro-Ukraine. don’t think I am either discriminating against LGBTQ+ vex students or don’t think their problems don’t matter or that I have a “privilege” in which I am blind to all of it and don’t understand. I’m not. I want to see change at this year’s Vex worlds. I want no bias or discrimination. The Texas law is downright outrageous. I want to see that anonymous student strive at this year’s championship, feeling happy, safe, and supported. But exchanging opinions on a forum in which not many people go on unless they are directly related to vex, you’re just talking to each other. I say that is a petition that is started and posted across multimedia to get the cause across not only the Vex community but the whole Dallas community. You want change in the big community, you can’t just stick to your inner circle (Vex forum community). And I might just point out to you, with all the things I’ve read, I kinda feel as if the community of Dallas are victims of prejudice. just because rich, power-hungry politicians make unfair laws, does not mean at all that the entire community backs it. It’s as if it believed the entire community of Dallas will be discriminatory to any LGBTQ+ student. Not everyone agrees with the big talking heads and their controversial opinions.
So in conclusion, instead of posting here singularly, why not start a petition to ensure the safety of all LGBTQ+ students and once signed, send it to the Texas government. Make sure they know such conduct will not be tolerated. That you will fight for the rights of all students and won’t stand for one group to be treated differently. You can’t change the venue, the law, or maybe even the viewpoints of the Texas government, but you can make sure everyone knows you will not stand for that type of conduct. Let’s see change, not forum posts correcting and trying to teach lessons to people who can’t make the major change in this community. We are only trying to help the best we can while also maintaining the forum. let us attack this discrimination at its source to truly eliminate this outrageous bias and have a fun, safe, and non-conforming environment in this year’s world.
-Sincerely, tired yet still passionate (its 11:30 where i live right now)
Derek
Would i sign a petition to stop discrimination at this years worlds?
- Yes, i would.
- No, i wouldn’t
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voters
and like i have said before, if i offend anyone, my PM is open for aanyone to talk
and like i have said, i have no problem with the LGBTQ+ communitity, in fact its the oppisite. i embrace them and i encourage you to spread the pride flags and other pride accessories.
That particular line wasn’t really directed at you, and I’m sorry it came across that way. To be very clear, I don’t think you in particular have any issue with the LGBTQ community.
I guess I’ll just describe my thinking, and you can let me know if you actually disagree with it in any substantial way. I apologize for the wordwall.
The state of Texas, in the sense of the government apparatus that makes up Texas, is hostile to transgender people, and in particular transgender minors and their parents.
It is reasonable for transgender people to feel uncomfortable (or, indeed, feel unsafe) going to a state that is hostile to them.
This is not to say that people in Dallas would be particularly hostile to them (as I understand it, Dallas is reasonably Democrat leaning) or that people at worlds would be particularly hostile to them, just to say that it’s reasonable to not want to go a state that says your parents are child abusers.
The RECF (and I am using RECF as a shorthand for that weird power structure that is the RECF/VEX/etc running the competition and worlds in particular) should do things in their power to ensure that all students feel comfortable and safe at events.
Special levels of care should be taken to ensure communities who are in various ways disadvantaged/vulnerable/oppressed are in particular made to feel comfortable, welcome, and safe, because the baseline for them is lower, and so more effort is required to get them to the same level of comfort.
To that end, there are a few steps the RECF should do, which mostly align with the points Tabor made above:
Making it clear that the RECF will provide support to anybody targeted by the law in connection with their attendance at the event (either there is unlikely to be an incident, in which case this should be a safe promise to make, or there is real risk to parents, in which case the event probably should not be taking place)
Making it clear the RECF does not agree, not just with the abstract concept that some students may feel unsafe, but the very real and concrete reasons that lead to those feelings
Making it clear that, because of the very legitimate reasons for concerns some among their participants have about visiting Texas, they are going to (within reason given the realities of their existing contractual obligations) explore more welcoming and inclusive venues for the future
Making it clear that the RECF wants to create a welcoming and safe environment by, for instance, providing some kind of pin or other visual indicator that that person is an ally to transgender people. I don’t know the logistics and costs of getting pins/stickers made, especially if they were provided for free, but a decent alternative would be as I believe was mentioned earlier some VEX pride sticker sold with the proceeds going to some LGBT charity or something.
Thanks, Derek, for all of your posts. You are sincere and honest, and are always trying to understand other views. I appreciate that.
The way you defined the end goal is only a little different from the way I would. Yes, I agree it’s to make this year’s Worlds safe for everyone. I guess I am just of the opinion that it’s a little bigger than that. No matter how safe the space inside Worlds is (and I agree that it is very safe), I dont feel comfortable with asking LGBTQ+ students to travel to a state where top public officials are openly and outwardly homophobic and transphobic. It just doesn’t feel fair. So my end goal includes making RECF and VEX aware that, until Texas ceases its attack on LGBTQ+ individuals, we don’t consider Texas a safe state to bring our teams to. I’m hoping that RECF and VEX will hear our concerns and, in turn, exercise their voice to pressure Texas to change. Yes, I could appeal directly to Texas; but I have no power, individually, to get Texas’ attention. But together with other teams, and I n partnership with the RECF, we have a better chance of being heard. Texas could still do nothing. And in that case, we would appeal to RECF to relocate the event. If they were to refuse to relocate, teams would then be free to choose whether to go or to withdraw their participation.
I hope that helps clarify at least one perspective!
My co-coach and I wrote a letter to our regional reps expressing concern over the issue of taking students to Texas. Just curious if anyone else has contacted their reps and, if so, what kind of response did you get?
I believe that most people can see that Abbott’s letter was only done in good taste, but the letter appeared to be made out of ignorance. I had a discussion earlier this thread with someone and changed my mind about this particular letter. It is cruel to let a child be forced to go through puberty and transition after the damage has been dealt, especially as there may be high risks of self-harm by delaying transitions.
Summary
Although it is good to note that:
Medical Treatment for Gender Dysphoria: A Review of Risks and Benefits – The Aggie Transcript
There still isn’t a consensus that self-harm is caused by a delayed transition, but it is better to trust insight by professionals who believe that it is likely the case, and that we should try to improve an understanding of how to better make sure everyone is safe.
That being said, if making a small group of people feel safer allows us to potentially save a life or make a better overall environment for everyone, then why not? If the RECF can find a venue that costs a similar amount but in a place where everyone is comfortable going to, then why not?
But I feel like switching venues is difficult, as I feel like this is a widespread problem, beyond merely just Texas (so I feel like for anyone to be putting Texas in a bad light is hypocritical, as most states are in an equally bad light when it comes to these things).
Be yourself, just… don’t be yourself too much. The idea you should have to show restraint in expressing yourself at worlds saddens me. I remember a guy in armor made of Mountain Dew cans, another person wore a Pikachu costume, there wasn’t a lot of restraint in expressing themselves.
Not a choice
It’s rather difficult to be comfortable in your own shoes when, to extend the metaphor, you’re born in shoes two sizes too small and the governor says changing shoes is child abuse.
Again, rather difficult to enjoy it I would think when the person you see in the mirror isn’t you and (from my understanding of how this works, I am not transgender so I apologize if I get this wrong) you feel a fundamental disconnect from the body you’re in.
I feel like the medical and psychological community, including and especially the American Medical Association, knows a lot better how to determine what’s in somebody’s best interest medically and psychologically than somebody with a law degree.
I’ll… try to refrain getting into this, but suffice to say let us agree to disagree on his motives.
Most people’s motives are not ones to intentionally cause harm. It is likely that the governor is acting simply ignorant with this matter because he would rather hear a couple sentences about a topic and make a bold claim as compared to listening to statistics and reading good data. He is simply misled and ignorant, just like many other individuals who do not understand that what they are doing is actually being negatively impactful to society as a whole. I don’t like labeling, or assuming that one person is evil when this is a societal issue. Do we expect these behaviors to change if the governor went out of office? Likely not in the next decade or two. It is an echo chamber of ignorance and lack of understanding, in which this echo chamber needs to be fixed. But we shouldn’t blame Texas because, like many other states, they are late to the party of change.
Facts not in evidence to support this claim in this case. The governor now delights in harming others, and allowing an “in group” to commit violence against an “out group”. He knows what he is doing. He wants to allow his “base” to be able to commit political violence, violence that would affect members of our community.
Sure. Which is why I’m sure he’ll soon be announcing an Executive Order that would restrict a child’s access to firearms so they don’t go leaping off into the unknown that kids tend to do.