Worlds Livestream Quality

From what I’ve heard from people actually there, in person worlds was great, and it’s great to be back to having an in person world championship. But, from my perspective as somebody watching via the livestream, the quality of the stream, at least in the divisions (dome was fine), made this worlds by far the worst one I’ve ever seen. I kind of felt like I shouldn’t post this because it was just being too negative, but I feel it really needs to be said, because my experience actually trying to make use of the stream was terrible, and I really hope that these issues can be addressed at future world championships.

The cameras:
I could barely make out details. I was asked to scout for some teams in my region and I had no idea what the license plates said, and I could barely see distinguishing features of the robots. The random cameras I bought for $100 on Amazon were higher quality than these.

The viewing angles:
Back when I competed, each division had a live camera operator, and the livestream operator would switch to those views periodically throughout the match to keep it dynamic and interesting. I get that live camera ops are expensive, so it’s fine that in Louisville it was changed to the single static camera shot. The angles then were good, I could clearly see the match. But this year some of the camera angles didn’t show part of the field, or had teams blocking the majority of one side of the field. There were some very exciting battles for goal possession I completely missed because the camera angle made it impossible to see anything. And then for things like award ceremonies, I’m sure family watching from home would have liked to see the people actually receiving their awards, and at least in the divisions I saw, it was mostly just views of the back of the emcee.

Audio quality:
The difficulty seeing the field could have been overcome if the audio quality had been better so I could at least hear the emcees announcing. But on my (admittedly kind of bad) laptop speakers, even at full volume, I had a hard time hearing anything the emcees were saying. Please check the audio levels of your feeds and make sure they’re loud enough.

Camera switching:
In an ideal scenario, the stream shows the field a bit before the match starts so I can figure out where the team I’m watching for is as auto starts, and then I can easily follow the match. The camera stays on the field for a couple seconds after the match so the audience can get a good idea what the end state looks like, then it transitions to a previous match score or whatever. At worlds it was more like display the wrong field for all of auto and the first five seconds of driver, then switch to the right field, then the second the buzzer rings, switch to a different feed before I have time to process the final match score. It was bad. At our events we’re in the process of documenting the exact process and timing of camera switching, and I feel worlds could have benefited from consistency in camera operation. Additionally, from the pictures I’ve seen of the control areas in divisions, the operators didn’t even have the usual preview program sources displays, and were I assume just directly changing the program feed. These problems seem like they should be fixable.

Overlays:
This is a nitpick, but in several divisions, the overlay was the wrong size for the screen, so the weird artifact bars from chroma keying out the green background of the overlay were making lines through the video. Also, the chroma key artifacting around the overlays was some of the worst I’ve seen at any event.

VEX TV Multiview:
The ability to view multiple divisions at once was really useful, and it was sorely missed this year. The fact that the “similar streams” nav bar to the right of the stream wouldn’t collapse meant even if I had two streams side by side, I couldn’t have them take up half the screen, since so much space was taken up by that.

Livestream outages:
I get that glitches happen, but the quantity and duration of livestream outages was awful. I think about 10 matches were missed the second day as like half the streams went down simultaneously.

VODs missing:
This is perhaps the worst thing. I was considering not posting this thread, because it felt a bit pointlessly negative, but this was the straw that broke the camel’s back. The research division day 2 VOD is just… completely missing. A team from my region made it to the dome, and some of their elims matches were fantastic. We wanted to go through and clip them, but the VOD is just gone. I really hope that all record of those matches isn’t lost because of some glitch with the livestream platform.

Worlds is for the competitors there in person, but also for the people watching at home. Ultimately I was only watching to cheer on some of the teams from my region and help them scout a little, but if I had a family member competing at a world championship robotics competition, I’m sure I would have preferred to get a better view of such a major moment in their life.

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Thanks for the feedback, Alec. All feedback is appreciated and will be considered when planning for next year’s live streams. Much of the feedback you provided is beyond my responsibilities, but I will make sure the people involved know about your concerns.

For the items I can comment on:

Multiview: We planned to get this back in, but unfortunately other projects took priority and we weren’t able to finish in time. We will get it back in for next year, though. We will also work to get rid of the ‘similar streams’ column – I agree that it didn’t really add any value.

Outages: Being in a convention center with a lot of unknowns (temporary network, power, etc.) it is difficult to go without any issues. We try our best to prevent them as much as we can. There were a few fields that had some outages due to power and network issues, but thinking back I feel like there were way less than previous years.

VODs Missing: I believe this is a bug in vexworlds.tv … I am seeing them in our admin interface. Our team is looking to correct it today, I’ll follow up once we have it resolved.

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The missing streams are back on the vexworlds.tv site.

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at the event i thought it was fine for scouting teams, although i really only cared about autons/lining up to counter teams. there was only one issue in my div where 6 quals were missing. idk about other ones or for spectators at home but from a competitor’s perspective i thought it was ok.

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I don’t see the livestream for the second day of design (5/7).

The livestream was awesome for me! I loved that VEX kept things online and hope that this continues even after COVID, and that maybe this can also come to other competitions. I loved the fact that I could show friends and family what my team and I had accomplished. Will the streams for Worlds 2022 continue to be on the site ans accessible, or will they have to be taken down. It’s always feels great to look back at past seasons sometimes and even look at some past ideas.

I’m seeing it … make sure you’re filtering on VRC HS (5th logo down on the left)

https://www.vexworlds.tv/#/viewer/?broadcast=kdwnzb5pzmeqsmfdvtxg

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Your link works, but I still can’t get to the stream by filtering. Thanks for the link though

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Is there a way to clip matches somehow other than screen recording? My computer doesn’t screen record sound. If there’s a way to make it, that’d be great.

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I guess you could get a wired earbud mic and put it next to your computer speakers, record the audio, and then edit it onto the screen recording. Probably a better way but 7121B’s motto is “if it works, it works” (though that’s gonna change this year be afraid of us vex forums :smiling_imp::smiling_imp::smiling_imp:)

I’m using youtube-dl to convert the live streams to mp4 files; those can then be easily cut. I’ll upload those to google drive and share them here so everyone can get good streams with audio. Maybe I’ll do some sort of OCR to auto-cut-up streams. It should be relatively easy to read the Q number and split clips based on that.

Edit: It seems feasible to do OCR and auto-cut up. Give me till the end of today. (Everyone, pleeeeze don’t upload audio-less and score-less clips on youtube, it’s really sad to have an amazing match but lose the context of robot sound or announcers)

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Don’t bother with OCR - we record the start/resume/stop time of each match in TM, and I have a script that can use that data to split up a recording into individual matches.

The problem is, what do you do with the matches once you’re done splitting? Youtube has a very low limit on the number of videos you can upload in a day otherwise I’d upload them all there.

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Could you share that data and/or script with me?

I’m just planning to upload them to Google Drive, and then teams can upload their own matches.
Maybe even uploading the whole thing and then putting timestamp chapters along with match details in the description.

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I probably have no idea what I’m talking about, but could you somehow add a page to VexWorlds.tv with that script or something so that people can go to that page and search a division and match number and watch and/or download the clip?

How would this script deal with scores? Would you have to clip two matches in order to have the match and its score in one video? Would the script simply output a video starting at the timer and stopping at the buzzer, or would there be excess on both ends to see the teams, process the match, etc? Could you make it output the match with a little bit of video around it plus the score clipped in afterwards?

Just some thoughts and ideas. I have no idea how hard this would be. At any rate, making a clipper tool publicly available would eliminate the barrier of

since

  1. uploads would be dispersed among hundreds of people
  2. only the people who care about their matches will upload videos

Batch Job to upload the most you can per day or separate accounts per division

It should be noted that your cameras are on tripods next to the fields, while at worlds the cameras were mounted 20’ above the center field in a division.

https://vex.pwa.systems

Was already made by a community member, it has every match indexed.

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The limit was something like 10 (or maybe 100) per day. With approximately 14,000 matches at Worlds it just wasn’t viable. Furthermore, I believe you would have to upload them without audio as well or otherwise you’ll get copyright strikes for the background music (I’m not a Youtube creator/expert so my understanding may be wrong on that).

Great, nice work to whoever made that. However, it looks like it only has 1 of the 7 events (VRC HS I assume).

Who made Cut to the Bot Videos? How did they do it?

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Alternatively, create a chapter list for Youtube to the big video and teams can jump from place to place.

So one video file indexed. [oops someone has this - three post up… just need same for MS, JROTC, VEXU, and VIQ competitions…]

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