Hello everyone. Because of the rule you cannot force an opponent into a penalty I was thinking something that goes around the protected zone that a robot can push in to force you into a penalty. Is this legal?
Probably not because I’m pretty sure that this rule does not apply if your robot is intentionally trying to be penalized. As a stupid example, a robot which, if touched, launches it’s pre-load cube into the opponents scoring zone. If a robot like this sat in front of the scoring zone and was bumped by another robot, it would probably not count as forcing into a penalty. What would though, might be if a robot pushed your robot into their stack/ inner protected zone because the opposing team directly caused the violation instead of indirectly like the other example. Also because the sort of robot that you described might technically be a wall-bot, it looses some protection which might include this rule depending on the judges ruling.
In theory, you will be violating the rules of VEX, as you will be forcing a robot to force you to violate a rule. But in practice, it will be hard to be penalized just because you “intended” to make them make you break a rule. The referees cannot read the minds of team members so going to the conclusion about a team breaking a rule intentionally is not possible unless it’s repeated/apparent. It’s very difficult to confirm if something is intentional or not, but if I were a referee I would check if this is repetitive every single match. If the same play-through happens every match then its definitely either repetitive or intentional, and I would give your team a warning or maybe discuss about just not doing your strategy at all or else disqualification. Now, what does this mean to the other team? Well, first of all it would be their choice to force your team into breaking the rule or not, if we are just talking on a one-match individual level. I would warn them for pushing your robot into their outer or inner zone, but immediately after I would likely tell your team to get out of their zone within 5-10 seconds. And if your team cannot get out after 5-10 seconds I will disqualify your team if match affecting, or disqualify your team if you still stayed within the inner protected zone even after that time (if inner protected zone = disqualification, if outer protected = disqualification if match affecting). This is likely what I believe is expected, via G3’s common sense rule.
also if you’re blocking your opponent from getting to their goal zone, and they push you into your protected zone trying to get through you, I believe you would get the DQ because you are the defensive robot, and as such you lose some protection against these kinds of things.
your opponent isn’t forcing you into a rule violation, you’re forcing them to force you.
What if your opponent does something similar and pushes you into your own stack, so that your own robot (like a tray or something) knocks over your own stack? This is something I have been curious about for a while, and most times where this happens it will also be match affecting, so it’s not really something that doesn’t matter. The rule where it says you can’t force a cube or game element to do something that your robot wouldn’t normally be able to do could be a solution, but does this apply to the other team’s robot as the game object in this situation as well?
SG3 and SG3 F:
The robot that pushes the opposing robot, which leads to indirectly knock over or “no longer meeting the definition of scored” would result in the pushing/defensive robot being disqualified, regardless if match affecting or not.
I wonder if this apply to the non-protected goal as well?
What does does the game manual tell you?
If the cube is still contacting the robot it’s still not technically counted as “scored”. The nebulous case is whether the cubes ever became scored. If the cubes were ever flat on top of eachother, then fall over while an opponent is pushing you, and your robot never touched the bottom cubes (because all cubes above touched cubes become invalidated), the rule would apply.
Technically, if the all the cubes fall over without ever becoming scored, it’s not a match violation. And if your bot is being pushed into the cubes, then those cubes are technically not scored, and thereby the opposing alliance isn’t doing anything wrong because the rule specifically says scored cubes.
Still extremely dangerous to be doing stuff like that, and definitely would not recommend, because cubes could become scored for an infinitesimally small amount of time in the interim while the defense is happening, at which point the defending alliance should definitely get a DQ . Wish vex would put a rule where robots can’t touch opposing robots when the scoring team is touching cubes in their goal zone.
They have a rule for making sure robots can’t touch opposing robots when the scoring team is touching cubes in their goal zone. That’s what the protected zones are for. The only place where this situation could happen would be on the side with the single tower goal.
Once the cubes are counted as scored, they can NOT be caused to be de-scored by an opposing robot. So once a stack is scored by red, for example, if a blue robot pushes red back into the stack so that the red robot is just touching the stack, then this IS causing scored cubes to no longer be scored and IS a violation.
This would be a defensive Robot, and refs will always favor a robot playing the game correctly.
They don’t NEED to force you into the foul, but the ruling on this is probably based of:
If you are trying to block the opponents zone, or, stop them from stacking, would be legal. Something illegal would be sitting in front of the scoring zone and waiting for them to bump you into their stack. Simply put, if you’re not trying to push them away from their zone, your doing something wrong.