3560Y 43 point driver skills?

VEX Robotics Competition Discussion VRC > Skyrise (14/15)
#1

A couple of weeks ago, Quadcopter posted a chart of skills scores vs. OPR as part of a post about skills scores in Oklahoma:

OPR is a way of estimating the number of points a team scores for its alliance in each match (read more here). I thought that comparing skills scores to OPR could be a smart way to quickly identify skills results that might not be accurate, so I decided to redo Quadcopter’s analysis for all skills results instead of just the top few.

This was what I got (results for which OPR could not be calculated, for example results at skills events, are excluded):

I was looking for results where a team had a high skills score but low OPR. There is one obvious candidate:

So, I decided to do a bit more digging. This is 3560Y’s score from the St. Catharine’s VRC Qualifying Event.

3560Y is on the Worlds team list, and I believe Canadian robot skills slots are the only way they could have qualified. So this score is worth taking a closer look at.
EDIT: People have posted in this thread to say that yes, 3560Y qualified through Canadian robot skills based on this score.

Here are the skills scores from the event:

Note the 1-attempt score of 43 by 3560Y. This is also the same score that 4659A got. One possibility is that this score was mistakenly entered for both teams, when only 4659A actually scored 43 points.

3560Y has been a low scoring team all season. Here are their OPR, DPR and CCWM statistics for Skyrise:

The important line is the blue one, which is their OPR. It hasn’t gone above 8 at any event this season (so their average number of points scored for their alliance per match probably hasn’t gone above 8 this season). They have only attempted skills at two events: the St Catharine’s event, and an earlier event where they scored 15 points.

I have some videos of 3560Y’s robot. First, from the St Catherine’s Qualifier, where the 43-point skills score was recorded (3560Y starts on the red autoloader tile):
3560Y scores 0 points.

Then two from the Ontario Provincial Championship one month after the St Catherine’s event:
Q20 - 3560Y scores two cubes on posts for 6 points
Q48 - 3560Y scores two cubes. Both of these are descored by one blue robot in the last 30 seconds of driver control.

So we know that at the competition where they recorded a 43-point skills score, 3560Y was a very unstable scissor lift that scored very few points per match. At the Provincial Championship the robot no longer had a skyrise manipulator, presumably because the one they had at St Catherine’s didn’t work.

Based on the above information that I’ve been able to gather about the robot’s performance, I think it’s probable that 3560Y didn’t actually score 43 points in skills at the St Catharine’s event, and I think the most likely explanation is that the score from 4659A was accidentally recorded twice.

Someone from RECF should be able to see in the results from this event how many of the points in 3560Y’s 43 point skills run came from each of skyrise sections, skyrise cubes, post cubes, post ownership points and floor goals. If RECF doesn’t have this information, then the event partner for the St Catharine’s event will have it (in the tournament manager database from this tournament - load the database into Tournament Manager, right click, 'Edit Score"). If the database shows that the point distribution for 3560Y’s 43-point run was the same as the point distribution for 4659A’s 43-point run, then that’s very suspicious.

EDIT: RECF and the event partner will also be able to see the time at which the runs were entered. If they’re consecutive, with 4659A before 3560Y, then that makes it more likely that 3560Y’s score was mistakenly entered.

I strongly believe that RECF should look into whether this score is genuine (by checking the score distributions and timestamps of the two 43-point scores). I’m from New Zealand, though, so it would be more useful if people from Canada who know this team or were at this event could contribute any information. Was this a genuine score? Is this a score that 3560Y would realistically be capable of? Is there an explanation for 3560Y’s apparently poor match performance given their recorded skills score of 43?

EDIT: this post is based on my own observations and opinions. It is not intended to represent the opinions of AURA, anyone else in New Zealand, or anyone else other than me.

#2

If you look closely at time 1:16 in the St. Catherine’s video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIXaTsw0qXw so you don’t have to scroll back up) 3560Y also violates the rule against having a human and a robot touching a skyrise section at the same time. This demonstrates that they either don’t know they are breaking a rule, or don’t care. Either is indicative of a team unlikely to score so well in skills, or willing to keep a score that they know they didn’t actually accomplish to qualify for Worlds. Earlier this season when a tournament reported a false 65-point skills score, the team came out and admitted that it was false. Perhaps 3560Y might do this as well, as I think they have a member on these forums. This would seem to be the ethical thing to do.

#3

I personally know the members of team 3560Y and the reason that they scored so high in robot skills was because they spent a lot of time fine-tuning their robot during that competition. The robot skills was the one of the earliest things they did that day. After that they were experiencing motor stalling issues. The score is perfectly legit. They even contacted event organizers and referees to confirm if their score was real, TWICE. They got the same reply twice saying that yes that was officially their score. After their outstanding performance in robot skills, they were fortunate enough to get a spot in the world championships. It was well deserved. Good luck to Team 3560Y at the 2015 Vex World Championships. :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

#4

I agree but how do you have proof that they didn’t act get that score. That could get very sticky very fast.

#5

Um, first of all I am not a part of 3560Y. Second of all you might want to read the account creation date (june 2014) before you say its brand new. Third of all, they got two confirmations, so they shouldn’t be forced to prove that they are qualified enough for worlds more than once. Confirmations are proof that they got the score, but do you have proof they didn’t?

(The answer is no btw)

#6

Hi is referring to you only having two post which are on this thread so…:rolleyes:

#7

How about we don’t reply in huge letters as if we are 8 year old children. I think we are capable of getting our point across without resorting to such silliness.

Edit: I see that people have now changed their font size or posts have been removed so this post is now irrelevant. Thank you.

#8

Most teams have some idea of how much they scored during a skills run. If the team in question felt to need to seek confirmation of the score twice, it sounds like they did not believe it themselves. A team that actually scored 43 would have practiced their run and known how much it would score.

Edit: I don’t know much about this incident, so I’m sorry if the team actually did achieve the score, however it does seem a little suspicious and deserves to be looked into.

#9

I’m not so sure how much a fan I am that this has been brought up in a public forum, I think this should have been something dealt in private as I feel it negatively picks out a team that likely didn’t do anything wrong.

If they scored this and the refs have confirmed this on multiple occasions already, I don’t believe they have anything to prove to anybody. You’re the one that needs to supply proof that this didn’t happen.

#10

Can we stop with the useless chitchat and actual get to the point.

#11

I’ve talked to members of the team and the reason for the confirmations was because of all the put downs they received from other teams. It was sent to prove them wrong.

#12

May I ask were this confirmation of these confirmation are?

#13

The confirmations were emails sent back and forth between senior members and vex officials. I am not a part of 3560Y so unfortunately I cannot provide those emails in the thread.

#14

Can you please stop it with these posts that are in big letters that a pointless.

#15

Wait why are we even talking about this? They are ranked 68 which is way out of qualification for worlds. :confused:
http://www.robotevents.com/robot-competitions/vex-robotics-competition/robot-skills/

#16

It is much more likely that something will be done about it if it is brought out into the public like this. Also, if you had looked at all the evidence provided in the original post, odds are that it is an illegitimate score.

Shashwat, how about you tell us what your team number is? That would answer a few questions. This being your first conversation on the forum doesn’t add to your credibility in any way. Any other evidence besides your personal testament to the legitimacy of this score?

Android4Life, please stop with the all caps post. They are obnoxious and make me want to skip over them.

Trex, this qualification is not for the top 30 robot skills in the world. The spot is assigned to Chingbotics because the scored high in Canadian robot skills.

Even if the two confirmations did occur, why does it need to happen twice? If a team knew how much they scored, they shouldn’t have to worry about what other teams are saying.

So far, the only significant evidence that has been presented is that in the original post by Vex Mundi. Unless somebody has something to show–videos of skills runs, an actual member of 3560Y, etc.-- stop commenting with personal opinions on whether the score is legitimate. This thread was not created to ask for public opinion. (And other threads should not be created to do so coughAndroid4Lifecough)

#17

I’m a member of team 6960. I attend the same school as the 3560Y.

#18

I’m glad I bought a large popcorn…

#19

I assume you’re independent with an organization name of “The Vast Empire.”

Can you or a member of 3560Y show evidence that they are capable of scoring 43?

#20

I have to agree with Justin (unforseengamer) in that I don’t like the accusatory tone of some of the comments in this thread. Regardless of if Shashwat is a member of 3560 or not, I don’t fully buy the “robot worked great for skills and broke the rest of the day” story. Just look at the statistics and you can see that that isn’t the case. If I were the team and I really did get that score, I would have no problem posting a video of a skills routine video to legitimize my spot at worlds.

This does bring up another conversation on how skills are being recorded and verified. This is the second time this season that a qualifying skills score has come into question. At many events I’ve been to, the skills are overlooked and not taken seriously, but the scores get entered into global rankings regardless.