Hi, educator new to setting up a VEX competition team here.
I was looking at the game manual and trying to see if the older VEX EDR parts (the Cortex generation) were legal. THe answer I got was the the motors and some controller systems were not, and other parts can be “cross listed” – but dang it I haven’t the time to dig through the web site and check if they are, and I honestly wouldn’t even know how to do this (the VEX web site’s navigation isn’t always so straightforward).
We have at my school parts from something like 20 older Vex Cortex kits (Clawbots, basically) and I am trying to get a handle on what we can use and what we can’t. So my question really is that if a part is NOT marked as illegal to use in the game manual if I can assume that it is – I mean stuff like the gears and C-channels, bearings, and all that other stuff.
I did click on the link the game manual had and it sent me to some discontinued VEX V5 parts, which is fine, but the site no longer links to any of the old cortex parts to tell me if they are legal or not. I’d like to think that thousands of dollars worth of robot kit is more than just junk at this point. (I guess I can still use it for class, but dang it would be a bummer if it’s ALL un-usable; school districts don’t have infinite funds).
Any assistance would be appreciated, I do plan to just call the folks in Texas if I have to. But I have to say the manual is rather unclear in the wording.
Unfortunately, it’s not really worth using much of it.
Let’s be clear, you can use any metal that you have. But it’s likely steel. Steel is so much heavier and if your goal is to be semi competitive (Let’s say make it to regionals) it’s going to be hard. You also mentioned your in Texas, and I’m fairly certain that’s a hard region.
Pretty much any electronics aren’t cross compatible (but I believe some inferior sensors are). The gears and bearings are compatible though.
Which parts?
If you can still find the parts on the VEX website under V5 (or under the discontinued parts link you found and R7 in the game manual), then they are still legal.
If not, then they are illegal, since they are not V5.
I am not in Texas, I was just going to call there. Anyhow, whether or not it is competitive in the sense you mean isn’t the question for me, it’s whether I can use the parts at all. I don’t want to be in a situation where using a freaking shaft collar gets a DQ.
(Sigh) THis is what I see when I click on the paragraph here:
“Legacy / discontinued products are only permitted if they are explicitly listed in this game manual,or still listed as V5RC or VRC legal on the VEX Robotics website.”
Which, OK, this tells me V5 parts that are discontinued, but again it does not tell me exactly which parts are cross-compatible for competition purposes. I want to know, for example, if the old flat bearings are allowed, and it’s really hard to tell because a) they aren’t there on that list as far as I can tell and b) since there are no existing links to the old Cortex/EDR systems there is no way for me to tell if they are “legal” or not.
That is what I am trying to figure out. Does our school now own 20k worth of garbage?
I have been teaching kids robotics using the EDR stuff so far, and that’s fine, but we want to see if we can enter them into a competition, and for anyone new to this the answers from that game manual are sometimes less than helpful. It’s kind of frustrating.
Again, this is the first time we are doing this, I am desperately trying to set this up. I do not have the time or energy to go through the entire VEX web site, check every part against what I have – there are literally 100 or more of these – and then try to figure out if it is any different from the EDR set in some way. Is there someone – a HUMAN – I can ask?
If VEX still sells them and they are labeled as V5RC legal, then they are legal for competition use, for example, bearing flats.
If the part is not for sale and has been discontinued, if it’s on the list you linked then it’s legal, if it’s not on that list then not legal.
Most of the non-legal parts were discontinued many years ago, things like the original linear slide kit, so it really depends on how old your kits are. I would imagine that the majority of a cortex clawbot kit, excluding the cortex, motors, batteries, power expander etc. would be legal.
But could you list the parts you have (and maybe some pictures) and are questioning the legality of? I could help you cross-check them and see if they are legal.
To give you some help, for the most part, all these parts are essentially the same from what I know (just rebranded with “V5”):
Most of the clawbot kit, excluding motors, motor controllers, will be legal. certainly the hardware, gears etc. you may want to double check on the steel chassis. value of these parts is only about $80 (it was a $150 kit originally)
vexnet system bundle, ie. cortex etc. - not legal
additional motors - not legal
battery etc. - not legal
the sensors in the mechatronics kit are legal as will be gears etc. motors not.
the sensors in the programming kit are legal as are the wheels, again motors are not.
Of that original $1000 price, well over 50% was tied up in the vexnet system bundle, motors etc. so there’s some value left but not much. You are going to have to add a lot to this to be able to create a viable competition robot, might just want to start out fresh with some V5 competition kits.
(Sigh) this is the problem, my school district doesn’t have infinite funds and the competition kits are out of stock at this point. But your outline helps – the problem is that if the game manual said “anything not listed here as specifically prohibited is OK” that would make it easier. But the way they worded and organized it makes this confusing as all get out and I kind of want to compain to them about this; I get it that VEX wants everyone to buy the most new kits but as you see each kit was already $1000 each. For god’s sake, if they even had the old catalog still available on the site with a cross-reference that would help.
In any case, I am looking at the available kits they have and trying to get a handle on whether we could re-purpose parts. The thing that gets me is that they may not validate the damned steel chassis parts – do you mean the angle irons? The C-channels?
This is what I mean, I almost want to give up on this. The way they set the site up makes this really really difficult to figure out. That’s why I plan to make some calls and just ask (The Q&A section is fantastically unhelpful because you have to register a team first andI am trying to figure out if we can even do that)
@Gigahertz.t – also thanks for your short list, that helps a lot. I am curious about the gears – we have the old green ones both heavy duty and regular, and if thre only difference is the color that’s good.
(Sorry guys to rant a bit, you have been a big help but this is MASSIVELY frustrating when the actual query I have shouldn’t be so complicated, at and VEX could have answered it in half a dozen ways that are clearer).
The old gears should still be fine. The steel is legal to use. If you send a picture of any of the parts you are not sure about, I would be happy to tell you exactly which parts are legal or not.
yes, my point was that, OP needs to add a V5 system bundle, more motors, spare battery etc. so at least $1000 to update an old clawbot kit to be competition legal. The problem is games are not really designed to be clawbot friendly anymore, so best thing is to start over for a new team and any parts that can be used from 10+ year old kits is a bonus.
For the OP, GDC (game design committee) is responsible for the game manual and rules. The RECF (Robotics Education & Competition Foundation) is responsible for running the actual V5RC. VEX obviously has input but is not responsible for deciding what is or is not legal.
And @NO1 and @jpearman - also thanks – it was helpful to see that the old linear motion kits (I assume yuo man the ones with the rack gear and sliders) are not competition-legal. I will for sure come to all you guys with parts and questions once I get a handle on what we are getting, if I can get it done by the beginning of the term.
(I spent a lot of time as a writer, and I have to say, if your rules leave stuff open to interpretation OR require a ton of time to figure out, then you should rewrite them more clearly, I am looking at you Game Design Committee).
I think part of the problem is essentially assuming that no teams would have legacy kits, or need to come up with more cost-effective ways to use the stuff they have. We were getting ready to do some competition stuff when the pandemic hit, and I am in a way a little miffed at the competition organizers, rule-makers and VEX people that they didn’t account for that. I get it that the cortexes are a decade old by now, but just… dang. Because there is a lot of value in the stuff we have at least from an educational standpoint. Eg RobotC, whatever its shortcomings, was pretty useful in teaching programming.
(There is a longer thing I could get into about planned obsolescence but I will spare you all lol).
