In Ohio, we already use BO3. For regular state qualifying tournaments, we just use BO1. But at states and kalahari, we use BO3 in the finals. We actually ended up using all 3 finals matches this year at the Ohio state tournament.
I’d say that any match directly qualifying for worlds should defiantly be BO3 since some aren’t. I don’t have the wording exactly, nor do I feel like grabbing it right now, but it’s something like “the finals at worlds qualifying events” or whatever. It should merely be “if the winner of this match qualifies for worlds, it’s BO3.” And obviously, all matches after that if it’s semies for example.
And maybe finals should be BO3 as a standard, I mean it doesn’t take up all too much time to add an extra 1-2 matches to ensure teams don’t get boned to some stupid circumstance in finals.
I like BO3 for the finals, especially when it’s a close match. We did BO3 at the Delmarva MS and HS championship tournament. All four of the finals matches were close, but in both sets, Red took them in two matches.
Issue is time, we were able to play alternate matches to keep things moving and the excitement up. It added 10 mins to the day. But doing it on all three levels of eliminations would have added another 30 mins and that would have been painful. Teams played 11 qualifying matches, so the were all pleased with the play time.
At my state event, bo3 would have meant somewhere between 6-12 extra matches. This probably under an hour of work at an efficient event. At state, we lost our semifinals match at 16-18. Our sister lost their semifinal match on the other side of the bracket, because they white screened in the first 5 seconds. IMO, they finals would have had completely different teams if our tournament had been bo3.
I’d be interested in hearing whether competitors would rather:
- 10 Qualifying matches and R16 pure BO1
- 9 Qualifying matches and R16-SF BO1, F BO3
- 6 (possibly 7) Qualifying matches and eliminations start at QF with BO3
No such thing as a free lunch…
Then make a poll
- 10 Qualifying matches and R16 pure BO1
- 9 Qualifying matches and R16-SF BO1, F BO3
- 6 (possibly 7) Qualifying matches and eliminations start at QF with BO3
0
voters
I wonder why something like this can’t be left up to the discretion of the EP? Like, something that could differ on an event-by-event basis based on what an EP and their RSM work out ahead of time and post in the RobotEvents listing. If an experienced event partner knows what they’re doing and wants to run Best of Three elims, why should they be stopped from doing so?
Good question. The answer is to provide consistency between events and regions. The RECF wants same quality for the benefit of teams. In the past, it was a Wild West where EPs were seemingly doing what they pleased. It caused a fair amount of complaints from teams. Things have gotten better because of better training options for EP and Volunteers, and the present format for tournament. As we have seen, the RECF makes tweaks based on feedback.
For our region’s MS championship, I have pushed hard to have 9-10 qualifying matches. It makes for a long day for volunteers and teams - so we extended to the Friday evening for setup robot inspections and skills runs (I think we did start skills runs that afternoon, might be mistaken…)
As someone who dislikes the randomness of the schedule (and subsequent alliance selection), I would definitely be fine with BO1 if we could add some matches to the schedule.
I really feel like semifinals need to be BO3 as well, but maybe not quarterfinals.
I should add on that I am a big proponent of BO3. If nothing changes with the quals, then I would be all for at least having quarterfinals, or maybe further up the bracket being BO3. I was just saying that if EPs don’t want to have more final matches, this would be a good solution (albeit, it will still take longer which is the reason EPs don’t want BO3 anyway).
TBH, having more quals seems like a better solution to the RNG element than BO3 would be. Your alliance partner and seed are both important factors in your success in the bracket and are determined by quals. On the other hand, while BO3 would give lower teams a chance in the finals, it won’t change your seed or alliance partner.
I doesn’t matter how good you are. If you or your partner whitescreens in the semifinals, your done for. (which is what happened to my sister team)
I do think that a rule along the lines of
In the event that during the course of normal match play, a robot’s control system runs into issues that prevent match play, assuming that the cause of the control system issues were not the direct fault of any competitors, and the control system issues were match affecting, the match shall be subject to a replay at the discretion of the Head Referree.
Could be something helpful to add until the WSoD issue is solved. For those at VEX watching, no, the anti-static tiles are NOT cutting it.
I could see this being quite vague. Afterall, what if a brain port frys? Would that constitute a replay? I do like the idea though.
As a spectator, I enjoy seeing evenly-matched teams, especially in swing games. Watching the 1 seed beat up on the 16 seed, isn’t something I enjoy (having been on the rooting side for both). I tend to agree that more qualifying matches are better than more rounds of eliminations.
Hey, hey, I resemble that remark. 
I would rather dump the extra rounds that would be required for B03 matches into the qualification rounds. It makes me sad to see 3 qualification rounds then the playoffs (Looking at you TSA) because it makes Alliance selection pretty random. With 10-12 qualifications you are able to shake off a bad match (paired with push bot, electronic or mechanical failure) and place pretty high in the rankings to get picked.
We had zero restarts last weekend, but the event before I had some serious Pi issues and ended up replaying 3 qualification matches. So if it’s a field fault, I’m all for replaying it. If you mounted your brain low on the back of your robot and forgot the cover and you got reset by another team, not so much. I do remember a year with a battery fire (leads got pinched and shorted.) We replayed that match since we halted to put the fire out.
No, I think he means do extra quals rather than BO3
Lame. Shoulda let it keep burning.
My team had a battery fire at Worlds 2014 Toss Up season - match was not replayed… teams played around the pillar of smoke…
What number of teams are you basing those numbers off of? Tournament Manager tells me with 32 teams, 4 minute and 20 second cycles times gives 1.75 matches per team for each hour. With 50 teams (typical state championship size in my region pre-COVID), you get 1.12 matches per team for each hour.
Elims with bo1 until finals means you play a maximum of 17 matches, assuming a 6 minute cycles for elims, you finish in just under 2 hours. Contrast that to bo3 starting at quarters with 16 alliances, and you worst case scenario play 29 matches, which would take 3 hours. The one hour time difference means you use either lose 1 qualification match or maybe 2 depending on tournament size, not 4.
For a variety of reasons I can go into later, I think bo3 at championship events is a must. At the same time, I am a big advocate for more qualification matches at championship events. This is the reason why I hope proper 2-day state championships become the norm. It allows you to play ~10 qualification matches and leave time for bo3 for the elimination bracket. 2-day competitions are the norm for other robotics/STEM competitions, and the VRC world championship is spread out over 4 days! It just makes sense to increase the length of state championships to give them a production quality similar to worlds.