Calculation of Match Affecting Violations With T3 Hangs and High Stake Scoring

So, there has been some activity online recentley that suggests some teams have developed or are developing a teir 3 hang or high stake mechanism. However, there is an interesting conundrum that arises with how a match affecting violation is ruled when an opponent blocks an attempt to achieve such a hang.

The scenario is as follows:

Red alliance: Has a teir 3 high stake capable robot that has demonstrated mostly consistent performance in achieving this, enough for an argument to be made that they could have done it had an interference not occured, BUT they could not demonstrate 100% consistency, maybe it fell off the rung at an earlier match, but enough to detract refs thinking they have 100% reliability.

Blue alliance: All the important context is that their relevant bot is strong enough to interfere with the red alliances hang attempts to sufficiently make it clear that they were interfering with the hang.

The match has been going strong, and red alliances only hope to win is if they execute on their high hang and high stake. They rush the climbing structure, and begin phase 1 of their climbing procedure. For simplicities sake, lets just say it counts as attempting a hang and nothing specific like a claw, hook, etc.

Blue alliance rushes in, and stops them from actually completing phase 1 of their hang,

In this scenario, blue gets a violation that may or may not be match affecting.

Since the calculation of wether or not a violation is match affecting is based on if the result of the match would have changed if it had not occured, blue argues that red was not going to land the hang, and the points the violation could have affected woule have been 3, for a teir 1 hang.

Red argues that, had blue not interfered, they would have made the full procedure and won the match.

How would this be counted? On one hand, red very easily could have won the match had blue not interfered, however on the other hand, they could have made it to teir 1, 2, 3, or done all 3 and gotten the high stake, and blue argues that it is unlikeley that red could have achieved this, which would make it not match affecting.

This question would either require the referee to fully understand red’s robot, either via watching, interviewing, etc to properly make a call, but volunteers are not expected to do so for every team at a competition.
If this referee did not have this knowledge, which they are not required to have, the valuation of the violation is quite literally impossible to determine, since it is essentially random chance to an uninformed ref if red made it to max potential or not.

How would this be rightly decided? A new rule? A coin flip? A replay? I would love to hear your thoughts!

I did read the manual, here are all the applicable rules I can think of.




Note that this would not preciceley be a major rather than match affecting violation, since this one action would decide the match in its entirety.

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If you haven’t, I would suggest making an official Q&A for this.

I could see an argument for the point value for the level at which the violation happened. Which sort of doesn’t seem to encourage climbs, so asking the QnA may allow the GDC to make a favorable ruling prior to the Dec minor game update or the January major update.

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You did not include the red text notes:

As with <G13>, Major Violations are not required to be Match Affecting, at the Head Referee’s

discretion.

Since the climb was low risk and team has demonstrated competent climbs before and blue’s action are egregious with sole intent of preventing climb in progress. I would give red benefit of doubt, DQ Blue as this is a Major Violation and does not need to be match effecting.

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This is sad if that’s the way some teams want to operate. We are building a tier 3 climbing bot and would really get testy if some one purposely blocked or damaged our bot when we tried to climb.

As long as they don’t purposely damage your robot or block it while it is in the action of climbing it is legal and you should plan for it

Not sure why “purposely blocking” (which I interpret as “playing legal VRC defense”) would get you testy (I mean, I get that it’s simply a reaction to something that happened and is neither right nor wrong).

Do you get testy because the other team is trying to score more points than your team? Do you get testy when the other team takes a MoGo of your color rings and puts them in the negative corner?

G 14 seems to very clearly answer this question.

Red is clearly playing offense and blue is clearly playing defence therefore the ref should rule in favour of red.

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