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Getting back on topic:
I actually disagree with the notions that a lot of people here seem to have that cheating will be uncommon. People will always try to game the system, and people have been cheating for years, even at in person worlds. Chinese teams in particular are notorious for modifying their electronics to get an advantage.
I donât think that this is a non-problem, nor do I see an easy solution. Nobodyâs even suggested a solution to what @Ethan5956F about it being easy to modify your sizing tool in a way thatâs not really visible. I think there are going to be some very sneaky and powerful ways to cheat that pop up and worlds, and I really donât know of a good way to prevent them.
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Ok - I get it - click bait title using RECF code of conduct concern - âsportsmanshipâ.
Though I worry about âgetting back on topicâ is it cheating or improving worldsâŚ
If the latter - email your concerns to your Regional Support Manager - really they are there to help make Worlds best possible experience for all.
If it is to get attention - do it in a way that is not alarmist - a title like âCheating at Worlds 2021â is not good - moreover if the content of your first post is way to game the system. That by definition is gaming the system to those who read the forum - many do not. So if your intent is to make aware of these flaws - email the GDC and RECF reps. or take part of the Town Hall Meetings to discuss such matters. that would really benefit everyone.
In future, highly recommend better topic titles - Cheating is a red flag no matter what forum you are on 
^^^
If cheating wasnât a problem in vex then hole counting wouldnât be a thing (not really cheating, but itâs not exactly fair is it ââ to some extent). To say the least, people are willing to do things to gain an advantage
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Saying âCheatingâ does not promote cheating. Also VEX designed this page for students to voice problems they are experiencing. And why shouldnât we post the concerns we have on a public chat where both teams and the RECF can view it and comment.
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And the title is not clickbait it describe the problem at hand which is Cheating at worlds. The post makes it very clear it is not about how to cheat it is about how prevent cheating at worlds.
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My humble opinion: Maybe you should have made the whole âinappropriate thread nameâ conversation private instead of arguing with everyone and interrupt the discussion about the potential flaws of vex worlds 2021. The discussion was on topic and people did point out several issues worlds 2021 is facing.
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How can we talk about the issue of cheating without bring it up. We canât just ignore it. Teams have been caught cheating in the past what makes this year different.
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I think itâll be extremely common. The easier it gets, the more tempting any perceived advantage given by cheating becomes.
whoever flagged this original post seriously needs to learn basic maturity
Anyways, I wanted to respond to these 2 posts by @Sylvie and @Nathan_Rossi
b) Everything will be recorded, so identifying a jump cut should be pretty easy
c) Iâm pretty sure VTOW would see a jump-cut and call it out in real-time, in fact
The VTOW one, I agree with. My issue is that not everything has to be a jump cut. I could literally make a âglitchy cameraâ transition to use in a broadcasting software in about 10 minutes. Hell, you could even black screen and it could probably pass.
Given the interactive nature between the Head Referee and a team before, during, and after the match, I doubt this would be a big issue. If there was any suspicion of this happening, simply asking the team more questions or asking the team to do a particular hand movement could avert any prerecorded script.
It doesnât need to be prerecorded though. You could easily have live camera feed with people standing in the same general positions as the prerecorded run interacting with the referee, then âglitchâ into the prerecorded run, and then âglitchâ back into live video feed. I understand Iâm thinking too much into it, but this would only take me 15 minutes to setup in a virtual webcam software.
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Let me just say this:
If you have time to think about cheating or other ways of circumventing the intent of the game you should put your energy into BUILDING A BTTER ROBOT
Remember KHARMA not just now but the rest of your life
A good engineer is not measured by his/her engineering ability but by his/her ethical, moral and sustainable innovation driven designs and those driving their engineering - as you will learn most reputable engineering (read science et. al ) programs stress ethical and moral design above anything - you really donât want to fly to Mars using âI got this done in a cheating and corners cutting ideaâ
If you then still have time left while building and designing an ethical, morally and sustainable focused robot, including an ethical and moral strategy to play, I recommend you start reading some books like:
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance
The soul of a new machine
The Making of the Atomic Bomb
The Feynman Lectures on Physics
You could also read Othello, or Odyssey, or Socrates, or Kant and I can go on
Clearly there are many others and Iâm dating myself, but my advise steer your extra energy into something productive for you, for your team, for your community for VEX and most of all, for humanity.
Over and out.
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I agree here, and I applaud your efforts to bring this to the attention vex/recf. Hopefully by working with the community, some of these potential loopholes can be closed. As kids who are aware of such loopholes, we are the perfect people to ask to try to make sure they cannot be utilized. Obviously it wonât be perfect, and methods of cheating will still remain, but by minimizing and hopefully scaring the misguided off, we can improve the quality of the already unideal event. I really hope recf takes some time to consider the points made in this thread to give everyone a fair opportunity to compete
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This is another âyou shouldnât cheatâ post instead of âhow do we prevent cheating.â it has to be accepted as a fact that many people will try to cheat at worlds. It happens at in person worldâs, of course it will be much more rampant online. Telling people that they should build a better robot instead of cheating is a fine enough sentiment, but not a useful one, since it will absolutely just be ignored by the people who want to cheat.
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I donât think that would work because they would see the unsteady driving ;/
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I think this is an important point some people are missing. The OP and many people defending his argument are emphasizing that some people want to cheat. Not all, most, or even a good portion. Itâs a small minority weâre trying to defend against. The community isnât banding together to cheat, but rather banding together to prevent the small portion of teams looking to cheat. We all want a fair and equal opportunity to compete, and no one wants to lose because another team found a clever way to bend the rules. Thatâs discouraging and no fun. In summary, weâre looking for ways to make this event smoother, more secure, and more fun for teams involved. This seems like the perfect place to try to gather community support
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Anybody who believes that cheating will not be a problem this year is completely unrealistic. If itâs been a problem in the past at in-person events, what makes this year different. In fact, this year, a LOT more teams will cheat. Pointing out different ways they can do this is part of getting towards the solution. Thereâs no way we can stop cheating if we never point out how this cheating may happen and bring it to the attention of the RECF.
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The reality of this is that people WILL cheat and there is little that can actually be done to fix it (yes people say that you can just be more careful looking for it but it probably wonât happen) I also deal with this a ton at Science Olympiad competitions where cheating is a lot more widespread (at least in our region) so we just have to plan on it and make our competing abilities stronger to compensate. Also, this is kinda like teachers not expecting you to cheat on tests for virtual school.
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This is definitely something everyone should see and think about. From what Iâve heard at competitions, there is speculation that some teams are quitting due to the fact that worlds wonât be held normally. However, these teams come into the season assuming that worlds is a guarantee for them, and that they are absolutely going to qualify. These teams are ending their season for something that could easily (albeit very unlikely) change, and taking the chance to even qualify for worlds away from themselves.
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Really?
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A couple of people reached out to me this morning about this thread. I have to say, the entire premise really disheartens me. Iâm not saying that I think it is wrong for the OP to bring it up or that there is something inherently wrong with this conversation. I just feel that the REC Foundation and VEX Robotics has invested so many resources into salvaging this season and that some of the community is convinced there will be cheating. I have only quickly browsed this thread and will go back and read it in more detailed tonight (I have a very full day). But I would like to remind everyone in the community what I intentionally said at the past two Town Halls: The REC Foundation in choosing to continue to support VEX Robotics competition this season using remote, virtual, smaller in person and pre taped options is placing trust in the community. We have faith in the community that it is more important for everyone in our programs to have an opportunity to participate than to cheat to win a trophy or banner.
I stand by the sentiment now. To have a successful REC Foundation VEX Robotics season and a positive VEX Worlds experience, I have faith that the participants will recognize the limits of the remote technology and regulation and will not intentionally break rules to give their team an unfair advantage.
Thanks,
Dan
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