This happened for the first time and it was wild to see. TSA Nationals
The decision was to replay the match since there was no precedent on a ruling. So nuts.
Haha, that’s pretty great!
Why did they replay the match, though? Seems pretty clear that blue should have been DQed
Well it wasn’t at all intentional and as long as they had time it only seems fair to replay. Also as he said this had never really happened before.
Intent doesn’t matter wrt touching the tiles, just has to be match affecting. Or was the blue robot not touching the tiles?
For what? Going up to score and then lowering their lift? Could happen to anyone with enough torque on their lift.
Probs robot didn’t get disqualified and brought back, or they did a re-match with another auton/turned robot.
<G12> says that it doesn’t matter if you are in auto.
<SG6> would punish the other robot for grabbing the robot, and would punish the pulled robot for touching the other zone.
Glad I wasn’t the ref! Looks like a good application of <G15>, replay!
Seems like their choice was pretty fair to do
Ohhh, I didn’t see that the red robot sort of pulled the blue robot over the fence until now. Thanks - glad you noticed. That does make it uncertain.
Even if they didn’t, I think it would be hard to label the blue robot’s actions as intentional or negligent.
SG6 doesn’t require it to be intentional
I agree, but even if the red robot did not start pulling the blue robot over, it did have rubber bands that entangled the blue robot. It’s not as if the blue robot was climbing on the fence itself. It wouldn’t have happened if it hadn’t gotten hooked on the blue robot.
Then again, it’s kind of a moot point, because the blue robot would not have gotten over without the red robot putting its lift down. Actually, the red robot is starting to look worse and worse here. 
Right, when I watched the video the first time I didn’t realize the red robot affected the blue robot at all (that’s what happens when people record videos vertically even though the world exists in landscape :D). After sankeydd commented I realized what happened and no longer think it’s an obvious dq.
Well it made it to the forums before we could make it back to the state. The red robot was my team. We protested many times and were denied. They announced that they would rerun the match even though my team protested about SG6 - touching your scoring zone. In the process of all that the impact also stripped out our gear on the lift so it was match affecting as well. As a coach I went over to the head person there. They told me that they were initially going to disqualify us (the red side) because we “pulled them over the fence”. I said that I had video to show we did not, but they then said the all the refs wanted to replay it since it was “Mutual”. I told them how disappointed I was in the decision since they were not following the rules.
Here is my video of the event…
We did not know about the stripped gears until we got into the “replay match”. So they changed gears between matches. In the 2nd round during driver control the red robot went up to dump, the blue went up and collided, the blue turned and tipped us over.
Less than 5 minutes after this my team found the rules and went to show the VEX lady the rule. They were not disrespectful nor mean. He said “mam can I show you the rule because they should have been DQ’d?” The words out of her mouth really made me upset with TSA and VEX. She told my student that if he said one more word that she would DQ them from ALL awards and anything they could get. My student just walked away. With their hearts broken they are contemplating the ethics of TSA VEX and the VEX people there. We still got 2nd in skills and 2nd in Excellence.
As a coach I really made some great friends like 91C coach and team from VEXMEN as well as teams from GA and NJ. Those coaches were great as well as their incredible students!
I hate it happened, and it was a truly wild, weird, strange moment, but it will forever live on youtube.
I cannot get over:
- how SG6 does not apply
- how the red team(mine) would have been DQ’d - they pulled themselves over
- the event effected the game
Oh well… here we go In The Zone! No fence gymnastics!
The red robot did not pull the whole robot over. It pulled its arm down. Their robot (blue) attempted to close the arm and came over the fence.
Glad you see that point. It was may team (red) that closed the arm then the red closed its arm then came over. See it from this angle .
So I have head reffed a few events and this is definitely a strange occurrence that would have me scratching my head for a bit.
Rulings I would have considered
DQ both teams for unnecessary risk of entanglement.
DQ blue for touching scoring zone
DW red for intentionally making someone else break a rule ( in autonomous everything is intentional)
While not in the letter of the rules a replay is not unreasonable. If I was going that route I would justify it under G1 and G15. Arguing that an event where everyone could be disqualified is obviously an “extreme case”
I am not saying this is the decision I would have made, just that the decision isn’t unreasonable.
I can see your point on some of the points you listed. However I cannot agree with “DQ both teams for unnecessary risk of entanglement.” That is part of the game… grabbing objects and throwing them over he fence is part of that game. But I do hold your opinions high and understand what you are saying.
And my point was only that the situation is quite ridiculous.
From the videos I think if the robots put their arms down in the opposite order the other robot would have crossed the fence. They were impressively joined.
Consider this: the robot never would have gone all the way over if both robots had not pulled their arms down. That makes it pretty hard to determine which robot is at fault.