I have seen defense work and I have seen it fail. I think as the defensive bots are better made and refs begin to understand the rules, they will make an impact in eliminations. If there are three really good, nearly equal, offensive robots and one really good defensive robot, I think the alliance with the defensive robot wins more than half the time. Eliminating 2 to three mogos does not only eliminate 20 to 30 points, but it also makes it more difficult and more time consuming to score as many cones. The stacks have to be higher and that also creates more opportunity for the offensive robots to descore their own cones.
I see it as an attrition game.
And I still think that realistically, the defensive robot can only corner 2 mobile goals (most of the time).
If there are 3 nearly equal and good offensive robots, then the pure offensive alliance will most probably send one robot over to block against the opposing only offensive robot.
But of course, that will also means the defensive robot will be defending against the other pure offensive alliance robot… making the entire situation into a game of attrition.
I agree. I think it is important for the defensive bot to have some aspect of offense. Most can do mogos. Some can do mogos and limited number of cones.
I do know of one cage bot that was able to control 3 mogos. The key was getting one of the opposing mogos in a corner during auton and being the fastest robot on the field and really good driving. A purpose built defensive robot will play better defense than a purpose built offensive robot. The purpose built defensive robot can also do some blocking for its alliance partner.
There is also a 3rd option for a robot that has not been discussed but I will wait until late February after the ones I know about are revealed to talk about that.
I totally agree with this. Especially if it is to be effective for worlds.
While I agree you have a good strategy, I disagree that you will win by DQ. That’s not how it works, as clarified in this Q&A:
If the cones knocked over are enough that the ref rules it to be “match affecting” then in a qualification match the single alliance member that knocked over the cones is DQed. However, the score is determined by the usual means–no additional points are added for the toppled cones.
So, if it was enough cones that they should have won (that’s what match affecting means) the team whose cones are now on the ground will lose.
If it is not enough cones to be match affecting, (that means it wouldn’t have flipped winner to loser) there’s no DQ.
So placing a cone-loaded mobile goal in the path of a defensive robot is a deterrent because they don’t want to be DQed. But don’t count on that turning into an automatic win, because in a qualifying match, it does not.
In an elimination match, a DQ of the any team in the opposing alliance is a DQ for the whole alliance and therefore is an automatic win, of course.
Robot in the upper left corner at 1:12. WHAT? Isn’t that illegal?
I saw that too, did they get a warning @thinkbot
Unless the offensive robot has a considerably faster cycle time than both robots in the other alliance, it seems like the the alliance without the defensive robot will win 9/10 times. It wouldn’t be too hard for the opposing alliance to send one of their robots to also play defense, which kinda makes it a 1.5 vs 1 in terms of stacking and scoring as the offensive robot that’s sent to play defense can stack and play defense simultaneously.
No one noticed it. I’m not sure if they did that all through the tournament. I’m not sure that it is legal???
No, I think everyone was focused on the defensive bot. One thing everyone should realize is that once a mogul is tipped it can be righted easily with a good push.
Yep it’s completely illegal (rule SG9)
This is true, and it’s while I think mogo tipping is a cool idea, it’s not worth it to make a robot that wastes a motor on that. While it’s cool , it doesn’t slow down opposing robots much, or at all if they are a good and smart driver.
There’s no reason to build a defensive bot, it’s not like you can’t do most things a defensive bot can do with an offensive bot (yeah, yeah, you don’t have as much pushing power, but you’re only pinning for 5 seconds anyways).