How prominent are defensive bots in your state/region? Are they effective?
In my region (Northern VA) I’ve noticed a lot of defensive bots. So far, they have proved effective until the finals, when the defensive bot is needed to score more mobile goals with high stacks(but it cannot).
From what I’ve seen and allianced with, defensive bots are nice in the qual. matches but are basically stale mates during the finals. Although, I’d prefer to choose alliances with bots that can score 1 or two mogos/cones and then turn to defense only if needed. But that’s just me.
We haven’t had any defensive bots, however if you can get all the mogo goals in to the best scoring zone you should be good. For those who don’t know its also illegal to tip another alliance’s mogo.
Only one I have encountered which is a pusher bot that pushed us into the wall and then stuck a mobile goal under our robot and we couldn’t move. That team didn’t even get a DQ or warning.
Actually it is legal to tip the opponents mobile goals.
I know teams from our school are still really irritated when a team at our very first tournament won with a purely defensive bot whose autonomous pushed cones into the corner. It was a chassis with like 3 c-channels. They advanced to state.
oof how do so many refs don’t know about <sg9>
<SG6> Robots may not intentionally grasp, grapple or attach to any Field Elements or the opposing
Mobile Goals
Grasping is defined as touching 2 or more sides of the cone. If you just lift it from the bottom its 1 side and therefore legal
Fair point, also says <SG5a> “Teams should exercise extreme caution when interacting
with or around opponent Goals”
Answered: Mobile Goal Tipping - VRC > In The Zone (17/18) - VEX Forum backs that up. I have to check the rules again, but I think that is just an extention of <SG5>, which states that you can’t tip over any cones.
Back to the original thread: I personally don’t like defensive robots, but usually the alliance they are with can’t compensate for a 2v1 scenario, especially when teams can now stack 10+ cones on one mobile goal.
Not quite, according to the Q&A.
Tipping does not violate this rule.
SG5 refers to tipping a mobile goal with cones on it. So if there are no cones stacked on it, it is okay to tip the mobile goal.
There just isn’t a way to consistently beat a good defensive + offensive robot pairing with current mobile goal numbers.
My arm caught on fire right before last competition. We took it off and went mobile goal defense bot. It worked really well and we ended up winning the tournament. Only one slight problem… the referee and other teams kept harassing me with allegations that I was breaking the rules. I wasn’t and I was able to fight them off fairly easily. Thats the key with defense bot, know the rules. Carry a sheet with Official Q&A responses to use.
Side note: If you really want to stop a defense bot, put a mobile goal with cones in-front of their blocking position. If they knock over the cones, you win by DQ.
This just happened this weekend. To many at the tournament it was seen as a grasp, at the very least.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ewcO49H4zl2ICn2V2
It is ruled that it is legal however pushes the extent to which the game is intended. I ask that the Rules Committee create a proper rule. We would respectfully also ask that this rule be re-examined for a future written rule that states intentional or Referee discretion of flipping of an opponent’s mobile is a violation. This contravenes good sportmanslike behaviour and mentoring, as well as changes the outcome of the game. Furthermore, the ability to flip over, potentially all 4 opponent mobiles, changes the way a team, robot design and game play is intended. Please consider this as an addition to the rules of mobile goal.
That being said please note that the mogos can be flipped back upright with a good push. However those seconds are lost in actual game play. So many Ref’s don’t see the pinning and rules that must give way after 4 seconds. There must be a 2 foot spance of space after that 4 seconds before heading back in for another 4 seconds. That rarely happens.
They already have, any rulings in the official Q&A are official rules. It is legal.
Unique designs always thange the way a game is played, and almost all robots are designed to change the outcome of the game. There also is never a way for game play to be “intended”, it is just what the competitors make it. For example, in Round Up, maybe the GDC didn’t “intend” for teams to put the moveable goals inside the ladder, but it was a smart idea, perfectly legal and a good strategy, so there was nothing wrong with it.
*5 seconds. But that is a ref issue not a rules issue
Defensive robots are changing the way games are played in our region. Last weekend we hosted a 110 team tournament and I was a scorekeeper for one of the high school division. The match was against two world class robots. They were competing against one of my school’s robots 1045B FRED (who is a really good cage bot) and another one of Benson’s bots 1045E A ARON. With those two world robots competing together you would have expected a new high score but with the cage bot (and the other) playing defense most of the match the opposing alliance only scored 10 cones. Mind you that the “stacked” alliance won 93-37 from auto, high stacks and getting their cones on the correct mogos people took notice of the cage bot’s effectiveness at caging mogos. 1045B FRED (the cage bot) got picked third on the second alliance and ended up being part of the tournament’s winning alliance. 1045B can cage two mogos and will even get the third one trapped in a corner as was the case during some of the elimination matches. Most of the other teams wanted FRED to be with them just so they did not have to go against him during matches. He finished qualifying with a 4-6 record but once paired with a partner that could score 10 plus cones in the elimination matches it was evident that the cage bot was going to win. By having two or possibly 3 mogos of the other alliance not available it forced the other teams to rethink scoring their 20 point zone auto as this is one that is in most matches is permanently set and cannot be picked up again to add cones to it. They had to try and steal back their mogos or look for new ways to score either on the stationary goal or by adding on to what was already placed in their ten point zone. Both of these ways were not giving them enough points to win the match. For those out there that are doubting defensive bots be prepared to rethink your game.
I dont doubt that defensive robot will make a difference.
But I am more surprise that the opposing alliance actually allowed the cagebot to capture 3 of their mobile goals.
I always thought that most of the time, the alliance will go for 2 mobile goals during autonomous… leaving only 2 other mobile goals vulnerable to the cagebot.