Disqualified for touching outside the Contact Zone while contacting Expansion Zone

Our team was disqualified for touching the field outside of the Contact Zone while we were in the Expansion Zone. Is this legal? I cannot find a rule in the rulebook specifying this, and the Head Ref says it is in Q&A, but I cannot find it in Q&A.
Unfortunately, I cannot ask in Q&A.

Thanks!

It is only a DQ if it was score affecting, meaning when you expanded, you hit a disk and it moved it to a new scoring zone. If it was not score affecting, it would have been a minor violation and a warning. If you had a few warnings in the tournament before this, then it could have also been a DQ

2 Likes

Can you be a little more specific where you where and what you were touching.

The robot was in the expansion zone, and it reached to the right of the contact zone. It did not touch a disk.

Assuming what you said is as it was…

There’s no rule against this. Also, keep in mind that the 2,3,4,1 point zones are 3D volumes. There is no difference between touching the floor there and hovering over it. If they said something about you touching the floor in the 2,3,4,1-point zone, then they misunderstand what the zones are.

1 Like

No, they told us that we cannot contact the field outside of the Contact Zones, even when we were in the Expansion Zone. The Head Ref. gave us a non-existant rule (S2!) as justification, and when we told him that the rule doesn’t exist he told us to look in the Q&A, which has no such rule either. Also, he did not issue a Minor Violation regardless and proceeded to disqualify us in the first “violation”.
By the way, could someone ask this in the Q&A so we can show this to the Head Ref. in the next competition? I don’t want this to happen again (for obvious reasons).

So it seems the head ref misinterpreted things / got it wrong (assuming we have all the facts). At this point, I would just notify the EP and the REC rep for the area and just pass along the note so that the head ref can be educated.

This is a good topic to discuss in drivers meeting for those that see this.

3 Likes

Our team has a scissor arm with a dangling bar (that scrapes the ground) to touch the contact zone (based upon extension - either contact zone 2, 3, or 4).

For our team, my concern is they extend the arm to the contact zone and touch the goal zone while extending to the contact zone (but not touch / affect goal zone pucks - so it is not score affecting). Robot is touching the expansion zone while doing this, so it should satisfy the “don’t cross the fence rule”.

I cannot find in the game rules something stating that (in expansion zone, touching the goal zone but not affecting scored pucks) would be a minor violation and/or warning.

I may have missed it, if so please point to the rule (SC4 and G14 do not specify).

At least I could not find it in the game manual from 12/06/2022. SC4 does not specify robot may not touch a goal zone while in expansion zone. Looking at SC4 and G14, it does not specify the robot in the expansion zone cannot hover/touch the goal zone. So long as it is not score affecting (moving pucks in the goal zones), I cannot find a rule stating a robot may not touch the goal zone or contact border bars on way to contact zone.

Any guidance would be appreciated - we have had some judges with poor interpretations like the original poster and would like clarification. If it is a violation/warning, please help me find the rule stating so.

With two 3rd grade and two 5th grade drivers trying to get extra points in the last 10 seconds, it will be easy for them to scrap the goal zone while shooting for the contact zone (either 2, 3, or 4) on an angle with a larger robot.

1 Like

@RodCushman Could you ask this on the Q&A? I’d be the best way to clarify this, and you could show the judge the answer if they are confused about this. It’d help us as well, because our head referee is very adamant.

I’m pretty sure this is legal, but our Head Ref. Josh tells us that it is illegal, and quotes S2(a non-existent rule), tells us it is in the Q&A although he does not tell us which one it is in and I could not find one, and otherwise refuses to change his obviously wrong judgement, possibly motivated by a conflict of interest.

Somewhere there was a question posted about accidentally hitting a disk while expanding and it was noted that if it moves into a new point zone, that would be score affecting and thus a DQ. If it didn’t move to a new zone, it was a minor violation. Of course I can’t find it now.

Since the rules for these exceptions are not documented very well yet, several of the Q&A responses point to following the flow chart in the game manual on page 9 since these scenarios are not covered in detail. So, following that flow chart should be the guidance for scenarios that come up until the game manual is updated or there are tons of questions in the QA to clarify these points. My guess is we’ll see updates in the Jan 31st game manual update to help clarify all these scenarios.

It’s pretty clear that no such rule exists in the game manual or Q&A that prohibits this.
Also, our ref refused to follow the flowchart as well and gave us a DQ directly (as with like 3 other teams).

Throw away accusations like this should not be part of the forum discussion. If you have a legitimate concern, please contact your regional RECF representative.

2 Likes

@jay_jayjay, as an Event Partner I’m highly insulted that you would even post that. We try to do the best we can.

If I had a team say that to me I would call my RECF representative and tell them that your team had just volunteered to hold the event next year.