And also, this would have been so much fun for NBN.
does that mean we have to be happy with it? are we not allowed to have expectations for recf?
my expectations of vrc are unrealistic, and i openly admit that. but iām not personally not planning on stopping sharing those expectations, because i love vex
No. I donāt know anyone who would be super excited that an event was going to be remote instead of in person. That said, I do believe this will be better than skills only or nothing at all. Throw in one or more of the various ways teams can interact remotely during the event and it would probably be a good time.
i dont think anyone disagreesā¦?
There are other choices to those you provide. One in particular is to imagine two new scenarios:
ā one in which four teams drops off their bots to a EP field, and they position to play four matches in which the robots are played from afar (yes new software needed - but the benefit is that game objects that move impact motion by other teams,
ā teams plan for next generation games are played with one manger robot and a secondary āhelper:ā robot that is on the field and called into action direct by primary robot.
There is no shortage of opportunities offered by V5 platform.
Those two options donāt currently exist.
I canāt imagine the complexity that would come with a drop off remote event. The first time a robot falls apart because itās not being maintained between matches by that one team whose robot is held together by zip ties and luck would be a nightmare. The software alone would have to make huge leaps that just arenāt going to happen in a month or two.
The second sounds a lot like AI. Again, in its infancy and isnāt going to work for teams that havenāt already considered it.
Maybe these things will happen in the future, but canāt see it for this season.
I might be jumping the gun a bit, but will be nice if we can have a bit more understanding on how this live remote category is going to be implemented.
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How is the interaction and discussions between teams going to happen? And also how is the alliance selection going to take place? Is there a dedicated platform that the teams will be going into for the alliance selection? eg. Zoom or Teams or Discord server, etc?
and how about the interaction and discussion between teams? are we leaving all these to the teams to decide on how and which platform they will be using? -
And how about during match interactions and coordinations between the teams? do they just shout into the webcam to coordinate with their alliances?
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How is the qualification for worlds going to be like? the allocation of worlds spots among the regions, etcā¦ eg. Do we still need to qualify for worlds via the physical competitions and then opt to take part in this live remote category? Or is there a separate worlds qualifications for this category?
A question I have is whether the other teams in the tournaments will be able to watch the matches that they arenāt in. If they canāt, how will scouting work? Especially considering that luck in alliance partners will probably play a big role in ranking (although the extra WP for completing the Home Row will help some)
Not with Grant Cox on the GDC. Remember, Discord is a scary place
Sorryā¦ bumping this post againā¦
But do hope we can get some clarityā¦ especially for Question 3.
I hope we get a little more clarification on all of this soon. If there is remote gameplay how are we supposed to scout other teams? or be remotely paired with another team?
I could have missed something in how this is running though so correct me if i did
The new ownership rules will still make sure itll be a swing game as teams will have to strategically distribute the balls amongst their goals. The only problem with this is the poor video quality which makes it impossible to tell what ball is what
Iāve had some time to think about this, and I think the RECFās decision making basically comes down to one thingā¦
- How do we stop teams from returning the game kit of parts for this season and/or get teams who didnāt buy to buy the kit.
It makes dollars and sense (yes thatās a play on words). I would bet that the cost to spin up a new game KoP costs well over $1M. I have no idea of the specifics but to come up with multiple large injection molded parts, to put together packaging, all the design R&D, all the people who work on this have to be paid $100k ea. a year ish, etc. I would guess that $1M is close to a minimum. It likely costs 3-5x that.
Given last years worlds got canceled, VEXās largest opportunity to get teams to sign up to buy the new game was also canceled. No school knew if theyād even be open the following year, so I bet a ton of them delayed buying any new VEX HW over the summer.
I bet VEX has a warehouse full of game elements waiting for a home and this online competition is their answer to this problem. It has to be a competition because it has to selloff the game kits and those game kits were designed for a head to head competition.
My proposal doesnāt sell the game kits, so itās non-viable because it doesnāt fit the core business needs.
So here are my thoughts:
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The potential odds for cheating is actually high when you think about itā¦ The things you would be able to cheat in would be: 1, making the bot slightly bigger, higher, or wider than normally intended. You canāt measure anything via webcam. 2. Modifying the field slightly. so you might place the balls a little closer together ,or maybe even the bot closer or taking up more space in the start square.
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The stream and cam software LOOKS outdated and honestly not very efficient. There is much superior, software that could be used. For example: YouTube, Twitch, even Facebook tbh. The fps is honestly kind of horrid, though I suppose that could be the cameras. But streaming it someplace like YouTube would be efficient. Maybe even Twitch, if you would like.
Calling reasonable insight into the problems facing VEX is not āconspiracy theoryā.
We know VEX designs the game ahead of time.
We know they market the new game at worlds.
We know they must make the game components ahead of time in order to have kits ready to ship as soon as they can post worlds.
We know how much money it takes to employ engineers and can guess at how many work on the game.
Developing the game costs $X million and VEX needs a way to recoup those costs, thatās pretty bulletproof.
Hi Meng,
Not trying to avoid your question. We will have a lot more information to share on October 1 that will answer your questions.
For question 3, we will still support the āin personā competition path to VEX Worlds. But we are also evaluating a path where teams from regions that have no āin personā competitions can still qualify for VEX Worlds through the Live Remote competition. As announced on the Town Hall, we will have a Live Remote Head to Head VEX Worlds competition as part of VEX Worlds for those teams that are not able to travel to Dallas. We are actively working on the qualifying criteria documents.
Thanks,
Dan
Cody,
Did you ever consider that the not for profit RECF is simply working to find alternative ways for students to participate in VEX Robotics this season? The RECF has a mission and that mission does not go away because of Covid-19. We have spent years promoting our robotics programs as a path to increase students interest in STEM because frankly society needs students to pursue STEM careers. I personally have a real fear that if students and schools āopt outā for just this season that it will take years to recover. Once a program is ācutā it takes way more effort to bring it back. So by providing options such as more Online Challenges, Remote Skills, Skills only events and Live Remote Head to Head competitions, we are working to give more teams and coaches options to participate.
Yes, the RECF does need registration fees to pay our bills - I have been transparent about that. But it is a tremendous amount of work to add these new competition options. My staff is tired. Iām exhausted. But we made a decision 6 months ago to fight for everything we have accomplished the past 3 years and to not give up on this season even though that would be the easier thing to do.
I get that you may not like the options we have offered. I understand you think your ideas are better. But to question our motives is unfair.
Iām a strong believer of the RECF Mission and extremely proud of the RECF staff for being flexible, persevering and ignoring the naysayers.
Dan Mantz
CEO - RECF Foundation
Thanks for replying.
We will wait for the October release then 
Thanks for the reply Dan.
Regarding your first paragraph, I donāt think anyone is complaining about having options. Having one option, and not a particularly good one, is means for lots of team to consider skipping the season. if anything most of this thread is the VEX community screaming for options, IE alternatives to the remote head to head. Iāve heard better skills pop up a lot here, and my proposal fits into a bigger and better online challenge.
No I donāt particularly care, I donāt do VEX. Iām an adult at the table just like you, and Iām just reading into what is going on and choosing my moves accordingly. When VEX does good, Iāll praise it, when they do bad - I will put a spotlight on it. Iām not a fanboy, not like the rest here.
Is it? I know a LOT of ex-IFI / RECF people who have given me a lot of inside scoops. You guys are not exactly anything close to morally perfect. I have it on extremely good authority that the RECF became sales-oriented in the last couple of years. This comes from a phone call with an ex-RECF member who went into lots of detail.
I have a host of personal reasons not to trust either entity as well. I wonāt go into those reasons here, if you want we can discuss that over PM.
But in short, RECF lost my built in benefit-of-the-doubt many years ago. I assume your org. is operating with its own interests in mind, as one should.
I can respect that this season has been difficult, I totally get that. I am sympathetic to the extra struggle COVID-19 has brought upon everyone, yourselves included. You deserve some praise for that. That doesnāt mean that this remote play option is suddenly good. It is what it is, itās a really bad situation and this is the best bandaid you guys could come up with.
I do not agree that teams who opt to skip the season will leave forever or be cut. I believe lots and lots of people will be chomping at the bit for the next season actually. Just as I believe that demand for haircuts, movie theatres and dine-in eating will be at an all time high post COVID.
