How did 62 not win skyrise worlds??!!

I am not trying to make any rude comments and am trying to put no harm on Cameron, but they are one of the only amazing teams that didn’t lose against 2915 and their alliance. Did something go wrong at worlds, or was a seven skyrise auton and INTAKE transmission just not enough?

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Looking at match scores they did only score 2pts in semi-final 1. Also stuff happens, that could be a reason.

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I didn’t watch their division much, but I believe one of the issues they had that resulted in the auto not working was with field tolerances and sizes. But I’m sure you’ll be able to get much more detailed info from someone on 62 or that knows a lot about them quickly on the forum.

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That’s funny, I was also just about to reply that “stuff happens”.

Team 62 was in the division that I was working on last year. One thing that caught them out a little was that field geometry could (and did) vary a little between different fields. For example, the exact placement of the skyrise base could be in a slightly different position wrt the field perimeter. It was still within spec, but with so many fields to setup at an event like worlds there is always likely to be some minor variation.

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I was in their division and they did fairly well in divisional matches, however their insane skyrise mechanism was not built to account for the inconsistencies between fields. (It would be hard to do so with such a efficient design). Their auton failed a few times in eliminations and led to their defeat.

So was the skyrise base not aligned with the section holder?

As a member of 62 from skyrise season I can speak to a few points, as @JPearman said, the field geometries caused us to miss more often than not, we seeded well, but not high enough.
There was about an inch or two of variance between the skills fields, and the competition fields, and we had the ability to tune for a skills field, so we took that opportunity, and made sure our skills run worked well. (In all 3 skills runs, we scored all 7 skyrises.
The 2 point in SF 1 was unfortunate, due to our robot glitching out (we had problems with motors & pneumatics randomly firing off during startup, and we had to restart the robot after each match).

I’m glad to hear from someone who experienced it themselves. Now if u don’t mind me asking a question that I’ve always been wanting to ask, do u think the intake transmission was worth it or would you have gone with a classic sprocket to sprocket conveyor belt with nothing else attached? And also would u have not been able to tell the field refs that the skyrise bases were not the same in the fields?

I fully think that the transmission was necessary in order to achieve such rapid skyrise building, it was also really cool to watch.

I actually asked karthik about the variances on the fields during the drivers Q/A meeting, and then further on Thursday, and he said that the fields at worlds’ variance was completely fine. We didn’t try contesting that.

A word of advice for worlds is that: if you have any extremely precise movements, prepare for there to be some variance between fields, and prepare to compensate for that.

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I can understand that, now did this cause anything to stall?

And can anyone else provide anymore feedback on what happened at worlds for 62?

Not so much of providing in about what happened to 62 during Skyrise (@Harrison2 is the best person to talk abt it).

Something that we have learned after attending multiple worlds (since clean sweep) - whatever mechanism or movement you have, you will need to make sure they are adaptable to the field and game element variation.

Eg.
Sack Attack - the sacks took everyone by surprise
Toss up - the beach balls appeared much bigger than we thought it should be
Skyrise - the exact position and how level the base was became a big issue

Think we can go on and on.

What I know is that they suffered from inconsistencies on the field all season. I was in middle school states last year, and I went over to see their robot after we won. I was amazed at how dominant their skyrise auton was (20 points at a time that 12 was top notch), but it didn’t always work, presumably because of field tolerance. After my dad walked around hs and checked out all the robots for fun, I think before eliminations started, he came back and reported that a team had scored 5 skyrise sections in auton. We were so baffled that someone (I forgot who) said he thought my dad had mistaken the run for skills. Anyhow, I guess the same thing with field inconsistencies happened at worlds, but it is fortunate that they were able to calibrate precisely for skills. The middle school fields were all incorrect by the same amount, but the high school fields (since there were more of them) varied more.

My partner from that year apparently thinks that some opponent in quarterfinals had played illegal defense and disabled 62, but I highly doubt that. Does anyone know anything about overzealous defense against them?

It could have also been the field wall height. On the elevated fields, it was a small amount lower (.5") and the skyrise bases were moved significantly from the center of the cross in the tiles. My robot ( with autonomous) would end up reaching too high to pick up the skyrise on elevated fields, but just right on ground fields. 62 may have suffered from this as well.
This year hopefully the only differences are how the nets are angled. Unless they are ziptied right, they can actually shift by as much as 2" and be angled in either direction by as much as 30 degrees, and hopefully this won’t be the scenario at worlds. The only thing people will struggle with this year is the bags holding the DCLs.

I Arizona states for skyrise the field tolerances were so different that the teams would put the skyrises in at an angle so their robot could pick them up.

Not if you use my innovative solution:

I believe the reason most people did that (and why I played around with it) was so it is easier to grab regardless of field tolerances. If it was at an angle it was just resting on the holder and easy to grab, but if it was in straight there was a chance it would get stuck in a bit and be harder to get out.

No, I know the one team that did it frequently that he is referencing. They couldn’t get it to consistently line up on one of the two fields, they were off a bit

I don’t think there were any cases of illegal defense in the quarterfinals. In the semifinals, I think Cameron’s Skyrise intake just got stuck and the chain. I remember Cameron telling me at one point that the low strength chain snaps under just 40 grams of force.

As for the Skyrise intake’s transmission, I think it was absolutely necessary. The only other way to make that work, since the cube intake didn’t work nearly as well with the Skyrise intake connected, would be to separate the systems, dedicating one motor to each. That would waste the Skyrise intake motor after the Skyrise was complete and slow down the cube intake significantly, maybe even leading to a stalled intake with 3 cubes.