# How jenky can it get before it's illegal?

What do you think?

3 Likes

please elaborate, question is a hair vague

1 Like

Think either one gets points? I think the first one does. Maybe not the 2nd one.

Balls on top, 2 points each. If cube was green, 20 points if not touching floor or wall of field, otherwise (red cube) no points for cube. Gotta read the rulesâ€¦ There are some ambiguous situations, not this one.

Some question whether pins are part of â€śfloorâ€ť or not. I think they are, some ref might not.

Later edit: â€śjankyâ€ť and â€śillegalâ€ť are hyped terms here. â€śScoredâ€ť or not is all thatâ€™s happeningâ€¦

4 Likes

This one is actually tough. The definition of scored specifically says not touching the floor but the pins seem to come under the definition of Field Elementsâ€¦but floor comes under the definition of field Elements as well.
To me, the rules only say floor. That one needs some official clarification I think.

2 Likes

Great edge case. I would think both would count, but the pins could go either way. I could see the first happening, but not the second. Weâ€™ll see!

I wouldnâ€™t call any of these jenky or illegal (theyâ€™re not illegal at all). More of will anyone actually see something like this and how will they be interpreted scoring wise.

For the second picture, 8 points maybe 10 (canâ€™t see the 5 ball). but no points for the cube because itâ€™s red and not touching the corner goal of the same color. Or are you saying green cube (even though you are using a red cube as example) and question is more about â€śplatformsâ€ť? Then it comes down to whether or not the pins are considered the floor.

But in all honesty, how likely will these 2 situations happen? Our IQ teamâ€™s kids all tried these same tests to see how they can score the cubes. Both of these are next to impossible to do with a robot. #1 is so finicky that it has to be just right and you wonâ€™t be able to do that with a claw/lift/whatever. The moment the robot moves by itâ€™ll cause just enough vibration to cause that to come crashing to the floor. Same goes to #2â€¦ robot rumbles by and cube will make contact with actual floor.

1 Like

I can see where both situations would be scored, depending g on how pins are defined, but I hope they clarify/modify the rules to make it that scored green cubes have to be on top of the platform

1 Like

The rules are so explicit that I canâ€™t see them being modified to be â€śon topâ€ť of a platform. The pins thing needs clarification though.

1 Like

Both cubes are currently scored if we are assuming that the cube is green for argument sake. For the first picture,

A Cube is Scored on a Platform if it meets the following criteria:
i. The Cube is contacting the Platform (including its supporting structures).
-The cube is contacting the platform.

ii. The Cube is not contacting the Floor.
-The cube is not contacting the Floor.

iii. The Cube is not contacting the Field Perimeter.
-The cube is not contacting the Field Perimeter.

iv. The Cube matches the color of the Platform (i.e. is a green Cube).
-The cube matches the color of the Platform (Assuming you meant to score a green cube and used a red cube as an example).

Note: A maximum of one (1) Cube may count for points per Platform
-There is not more than 1 cube that can count for points on this platform so it counts.

The same would apply for the second picture as well. All of the criteria are met so without a rule change, the cube would be considered scored.

Considering the Q&A response for " Green cube touching ACTUAL floor"

https://www.robotevents.com/VIQC/2019-2020/QA/308

Does this cube count as being scored if my robot placed it there and the cube never lost contact with the platform.

G10 - Keep Game Objects in the Field. Game Objects that leave the Field during a Match will not be
returned. â€śLeaving the Fieldâ€ť means that a Game Object is outside of the vertical projection of the Field Perimeter and no longer in contact with the Field, Field Elements, other Game Objects, or Robots.

I know there will be competitions that have elevated fields and I am not trying to play the game in a janky manner, but this ruling enables teams to bend the game in their favor if they choose to play it in this manner and I find that the rules should be adjusted to make sure that teams play the game the way it was intended.

2 Likes

that would take a lot of effort to do and would be a waste of time even though it would not count because of G10 also remember G3 it could save a lot of time with people posting unlikely game situation on the forum, rather try to work around the rules, just make a robot that can play the game

1 Like

That could actually be scored. G10 is not violated (assuming it remains in contact with a robot until released at which point it is in contact with a field element) and this clarification says the cube can be in contact with the room floor and be considered scored:
https://www.robotevents.com/VIQC/2019-2020/QA/308

2 Likes

The problem is scoring outside the field takes less effort and can give teams that plan to do so an advantage. And G10 right now makes it legal with the Q&A response. My concern is when competing against teams that will take advantage of this and can score a cube by bending the rules rather than playing the game the way it was intended.

1 Like

Hmm, not sure I agree with that. First, I donâ€™t think scoring outside the field takes less effort. To score outside the field as pictured above, a team/robot would have to:

1. Hope the tournament doesnâ€™t use elevated fields.
2. Navigate around the platform to get a cube outside the field in the correct position.
3. Be very careful to ensure that the cube is always touching the robot and/or the platform structure, since if itâ€™s touching neither while outside the field it should be removed from play by a referee.

Thatâ€™s a pretty complicated and precise procedure, and while a team could get better at it with practice, my gut suggests itâ€™s unlikely that teams will start doing this sort of thing with any regularity.

Second, whatâ€™s the advantage in doing this? Itâ€™s worth the same amount of points, takes longer to do, and you canâ€™t score another cube on the same platform by rule, so the extra space on top of the platform isnâ€™t a reason to do it.

All in all, I donâ€™t think this is an edge case that needs to be addressed.

1 Like

I think Milo was hoping to connect with other students. He was just sparking some discussion about the game. It would be great to have more students posting in here.

I think itâ€™s great for kids to explore solutions that are out of the norm. Isnâ€™t that the purpose of the game, to get them exploring different ways to tackle the problems? Probably this will come to nothing because it is easier to score other ways, but you never know until you think it out.> Blockquote

4 Likes

The official ruling on the orange pins is that they are not part of the floor:

"The orange pins are not considered part of the Floor. For the purposes of this question, the definition of Floor can be interpreted as â€śthe white & black plastic field tilesâ€ť.

Provided that all other criteria from the definition of Scored are met, then yes, a Cube which is contacting the orange pins without contacting the Floor would be considered Scored."

3 Likes