New qualification Document


#1

So the new qualification document is out and well, it changes everything.

Find it here
https://www.roboticseducation.org/documents/2018/06/vrc-qualifying-criteria-2018-19.pdf

Some of the changes I am specifically sad about

@meng I think Singapore might be dead as a region now :frowning:

This seems needless. All it does is punish teams in regions that don’t have many events or can’t afford to travel much.
Raises the barrier of entry to hosting an event. I always tell new EPs to host a skills only event as a practice for a larger event. No teams will travel to a non qualifying event.

This change seems to just tell teams “Hey you cant host an event and win all the awards/ qualifying spots just because your the only team there, o wait, yes you can if we like you”


#2

I don’t understand, how many alliances make it from each local tournament?


#3

Yeah, I’m pretty sad to see worlds skills go too, rip Singapore, and rip skills bots. Also, with the lower judged awards qualifying for worlds, I feel like the overall quality of robots going to worlds will decrease. At least teams won’t be complaining about being allied with a skills bot at their worlds qualifier.


#4

Doesn’t it say that skills spots will fill any extra spots? That means the top couple teams from skills will still go to worlds.


#5

The EP can hold 1 event without percentage constraints … is because of me. I have multiple places that hold events, most of them are 24 team events. But I have a school that has 10 robots holding an event, they are going to want to have ALL their teams come to the event. So 40% of the robots at THAT event will be from one place. Not a big deal, since we’ll have other events at other schools that meet the percent requirements. There are lots of places in the same position, so it makes our life easier and helps us have more events. Because MORE EVENTS is what we really want.

Not sure how I feel about the lack of Worlds Skills, I thought that was a good way for great teams to get into Worlds. We often couple “Skills Only” with a come build all day and that was an attraction.


#6

If there are more than 6 organizations it should be fine anyway right? Which is like 5 organizations of 3 teams each.


#7

That is only if there are extra spots in that region? A lot of regions will not have any. Singapore for example have 1 HS spot yet have qualified 5 teams every year through the skills scores. (done from memory don’t hate me Meng)

Small competitive regions are being crippled.


#8

Skills was the only thing that kept me sane, now that’s gone too… When I saw B01 I was like eh, it’s bad but it might be better in the long run. However, effectively replacing the most nonbiased qualification component in the whole entire competition with signature events spots (at least that’s what I’m assuming) is outrageous. If you can’t afford to shovel out enough money for a plane ticket to Hawaii don’t even bother trying anymore. Can you please take a moment and think before you make your next decision? Thanks.

B01 at states and no skills. Hmp, what’s next.


#9

Skills was the only way to have a sense of security for qualifying for worlds. Especially now in BO1, competition is much less reliable that you’ll win states/regionals.

Seems like it’s all thrown to the dice now


#10

@tabor473 – No not really 24 - 10 = 14 / 5 = 3 teams per organization, and they all have 6 teams. Most of the time they bring 4 robots, so I’m looking at 5 schools.


#11

so how many alliances go per local tournament?


#12

Edit: Oops, I completely missed the bit about not qualifying teams based on the top world wide rankings, I thought that was just a change for skills only events. Ignore most of what I said.

How does this diminish skills in any way shape or form? All it does is make you set the record at a regular competition instead of a skills only event. It discourages skills only bots, which I think should never have existed in the first place anyways, so I’m thrilled that they’ve changed this. It should increase the level of competitiveness at worlds because you’ll get less teams that have ran their run 50 times to try and set a record at a skills only event, when you only get 3 runs of each at worlds anyways.


#13

Honestly, i don’t think we will take the problem to fly over for worlds if it is just for one team.

And this is another example of recf making decision without consulting people that are at the ground level and not understanding the local context / constraints.

Schools in Singapore are discouraged to go overseas for competitions. So in general, one trip per year is about the max that we can get approval for. So there is not much chance that we can go for APAC, etc.

And even if we can get approval, just imagine the extra cost required just to get a chance to qualify for worlds. :frowning:

But you guys are right - it basically spells the end of Singapore in vex.
And i am pretty sure many smaller regions will feel the same effect as us, which means, very soon, recf can rename world championship as US Open or US Invitational.

I really don’t see how these new changes encourage growth in the smaller regions.


#14

I have mixed feelings towards this latest change. I feel that it does really hinder teams who do use skills to qualify every year and also those in regions where there are very few assigned spots.
The idea of signature competitions seems exiting to me but to be fair and successful there will have to be lots of them all around the world to make them accessible. For example I would love a European championship but we might only be able to attend if it was hosted in the UK due to the costs and logistics involved with international travel.
We are also unsure how many spots have been allocated to these signature events. There could now be more spots for each region if there is no longer skills which would be beneficial to some regions.
I am slightly unsure why this change has come so suddenly, skills was the most fair way of individual judging robot performance and without it having spots at worlds makes the competition less fair.
I also really don’t understand why skills only events are now for practice only. I really see no reason for this to be the case. These events were valid and useful events which many teams attend and enjoy.


#15

From my experience with signature events, regardless of the size it is normally just the Excellence award that qualifies for Worlds.

And with skills now not qualifying for events except in the case of Double Quals, I really hope this means they can correct what I think is an error in only giving Singapore a single slot. Whatever their formula, I just don’t see how it’s justified.


#16

I agree. These new changes are horrendous. Worlds is already centered enough around US teams (~80% are from the US IIRC); why does RECF need to make that percentage even higher?


#17

Skills only events were cheap, easy to run and easy to attend. I went to one that was a Thursday after school. Any school could run one and invite everyone nearby to meet the minimum teams. Skills only tournaments lowered the barrier to entry for hosting an event.

If there are a lot of skills only events going on it means any team can find an event to post skills scores. Now only teams that are willing and able to travel farther and attend a full event have that opportunity.


#18

I never thought I would see the day. Vex has made a lot of questionable decisions over the years, some for the better, some for the worst. I won’t cast judgement before they explain themselves, but I’m certainly unimpressed. (A note to the VEX PR team, you should really consider making a statement BEFORE a drastic and/or controversial change instead of quietly releasing something like this and letting everyone fester…)

However, I didn’t start writing this post to express my dissatisfaction with the Skills changes, literally everyone else is going to do a perfectly acceptable job of that because it was a terrible choice, I simply came to express my gratitude for 8059’s presence in the community for so long and a great deal of sorrow if this ends up costing Singapore teams the opportunity to compete.

Singapore may be the most power dense region on earth in terms of VRC teams. It is way too small for the amount of world-class talent that it consistently produces and numbers like 8059 and 8066 are some of the most legendary teams to have ever graced the stage of the VRC. To see the word “Singapore” by an Alliance partners name is one of the greatest reliefs in life. To see it on the other side of the field with the wrong color is much more concerning, to say the least.

8059 has been an exemplary program and an example of what teams should strive to be for as long as I can remember, and my first competition was Round Up. They have seen the rise and fall of dynasties and are still standing. @meng I think I’ve spoke with some of the 8059 guys a few times at Worlds, but I’d like you to know personally that I’ve had only the utmost respect for your program and your presence here on VF and hold your teams in the highest regard. If these changes see the loss of 8059, then that is a loss much too great. Thank you for your immeasurable contribution to this community and if this marks the end of Singapore Vex, then that competitive presence will be sorely missed.

I sincerely hope the RECF rectifies this situation, I’m sure they understand the importance of a region like Singapore to the competitive scene and the consequences of their actions and will do their best to produce a solution. But for now, we wait.


#19

I feel like these changes were used after a bunch of skills bots came to worlds last year because skill in In The Zone didn’t require any actual skill in competition, so a lot of bad comp teams showed up. They respond by totally invalidating skills as a way to qualify for worlds, in multiple ways. However, skills is the home of consistency, and when a good skills score correlates to a good competitive ability, then skills is the deliverer of justice for the best team in the state that somehow disconnects in one match of elims (Just when you thought bo1 was bad enough). Now that is gone, singapore is dead, and there is no justice for stupid ref calls, disconnects, or any kind of inconsistency in a single elimination, best of 1, 2 minute event.

But who am I kidding?! Y’all people in power responded when we advised against BO1 by saying “We won’t give in to people’s hatred towards change” or something like that, but I completely fail to comprehend the logic behind this. It is yet another way of benefitting something (even that is debatable!) with the detriment of a majority of the playerbase! I wish I could say that I vote with my wallet, but my school has been doing VEX for years, and I’ll never convince anyone to change that. Therefore, I am under my overlords, and I beg for mercy.


#20

+100000
After working with Blank at the World Championship this year, I have immense respect for them. They always have consistently and highly competitive teams, and have been an inspiration to those still trying to find their way in Vex. It will be so sad to see them go, and I know their presence will be greatly missed if these changes are put into effect.