There is more of a fundamental differences between them.
In FRC I’m a mentor. Which means that I can help in the design and build process. Since they are making / machining parts I can hands on make and teach how to use a Bridgeport machine to make the parts, or welding, etc.
VRC started off with more hands on, swung over to the “dump a box of parts on the table and walk away” student led (Hi Roboteers, here is your block of aluminum, a box of mills and behind me is the Bridgeport Series I Milling Machine - RL30-3061101C - Penn Tool Co., Inc Try to not cut off a finger) to the current student centered where I can still teach.
As someone that lived through the schism it was much more nuanced than that.
I was around for that too and while my recollection is a bit hazy now, I thought that in the immediate aftermath of the split, FTC wasn’t really much (any?) more open than VRC. I thought basically Lego/Pitsco replaced VEX and you were more or less limited to the Tetrix parts only, and that the more open approach to building came later on.
That’s the nuanced part, in a nutshell, FIRST wanted to add Lego league, but the Lego company insisted that in order to do Lego League, FIRST would be required to use their significantly expensive and unpopular education set “Tetrix”…so FIRST turns VEX loose so they can use the Legos, and a few years later, VEX creates the VEXIQ system to blow Legos out of the water.
If you’ve ever tried to work with the Tetrix stuff, you can see why they had to open it up to more materials. The hole patterns and fittings are very restrictive, and if you thought VEX stuff was expensive… Here’s an example of a Tetrix “c-channel” which would cost you $9
This might be my bias because I actually competed in FLL many many years ago and have only limited experience with IQ, but I think I prefer FLL. I like that there’s lots of little challenges where you chose which ones to do (unless you’re one of the top tier teams who figures out how to do everything) rather than just try to optimize for the one or two interactions, the fact that it runs pretty much entirely autonomously, and also the whole meta of “design attachments to quickly swap out on your robot to do the various tasks”
Also, the fact that the build system allowed me to have a minifigure “driving” my robot was a plus. Sure you could stick a minifig on an IQ robot, but it just wouldn’t be the same.
EDIT: It occurs to me I used sensors more as a bottom tier elementary school student in FLL than as a high tier high school student in VRC, which is crazy.
Interesting, because this “only autonomous” for Lego is what makes VEXIQ more popular…almost all kids I’ve interacted with love the driver-control aspect of robotics.
(When I was growing up, we never had anything like robotics in school. I did have an erector set at home, though). And programming…at home that was a Commodore 64 after I got to college, in high school, we took a field trip once to see a computer at the local university, and maybe played a teletype game (there was no monitor).
In a shocking turn of events it turns out the software engineer whose hobby is more software engineering on side projects was not a normal child. OK, maybe that part was just me.
Pilot season for FVC (which would later spilt into FTC and VRC) was, what, 2005-06?
There is definitely a part of me that appreciates the comparatively-high importance of sensors and autonomous programming in FLL (especially considering how much FLL teams have been able to do with questionable sensors and programming environments – anyone who’s used the EV3 gyro or EV3-G for more than a few minutes will know what I mean…)
But yeah, getting to drive the robot with a controller, plus no required research project, would’ve won me over very quickly if VIQC had been around when I was an FLL kid.
Perhaps it was, but there was some amount of politics involved in forcing First to use the tetrix system, which put IFI out on its ear. So maybe the change from Vex to tetrix happened a little later, when Lego knew they had the leverage to force their hand.
Having lived AND played AND mentored through the schism, I can assure you Dave’s hazy memory is correct.
Let’s leave the ‘overheard-at’ type of nonsense off the forums. Unless you have first-hand knowledge on this topic, there is no reason to provide ‘opinions’ regarding what did or did not transpire.
So at the EP meeting in June, I climbed on my horse, leveled my lance and tilted head long into the Windmill that is Screwgate (Man of La Mancha - Don Quijote fight the windmill scene (No substitles) - YouTube Suddenly he spots a windmill, mistakes it for a four-armed giant, attacks it, and receives a beating from the encounter. for those that don’t remember the Man of La Mancha)
Anyway, Grant adroitly parried, gave some reasons and some examples and ended with the GDC rulings are final, and steel screws are the rule. So it’s over, done, finished, etc.
The GDC might not be changing their minds, and they might not care to comment further, but that doesn’t mean I don’t still care to continue to comment on how utterly lacking in critical thought this decision is.
Seems worth pointing out that RECF after years of fighting the community brought back global skills qualifications and skills only events. So the fights don’t end when RECF says they changed a rule and are committed to new rule. It’s only those of us with long term views that can continue to hold them accountable year to year.
So I feel targeted here. I’ve gone after windmills years now ( 2006) and I’ve won many more than I’ve walked away from. Sometimes the battle is worth it like feedback from judges, others are just screws. Put together a priority list of windmills ( in another thread) to tilt after, and I’ll sign up for some.
My opinion is that in this case the issue isn’t really so much the new rule (even if I think it’s fairly pointless and doesn’t really solve any actual problem) as it is the transition. I don’t really care one way or the other if aluminum screws are illegal so much as I was annoyed that a longstanding rule had changed, which is likely going to create issues with inadvertent violations and general confusion, and will definitely result in a lot of waste in the form of screws that are no longer legal for use getting thrown out. The damage is already done at this point, and continuing to fight to get it fixed in a few years doesn’t really accomplish much.
