Can someone explain how the blue alliance got dq’d in last match of finals?
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They descored when red alliance wasnt double zoned
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That happened all tournament and was very spotty in being called across divisions. Disappointed the last match had to end this way, but was the right call. They should have made a brief statement to those in the audience.
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Does anyone know the score of the game (really just Blue Allience)
I thought both teams de scored in roughly the same way. Both went in when all bots where on other side however in both cases the opposing team crossed back when bot was still inside the goal. Maybe the dq’ed team had a bigger advantage from the descoring? Good final though, just a bid sad to see DQ’s.
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I cant remember the post number off the top of my head, but in a Q&A vex stated that if both teams have a match affecting violation, only the team that would have won based off raw scores gets a dq. We ran into that issue in a match earlier this season.
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According to the final score sheet at time 2:54:40, blue would have 119
From the video it appears that both teams descored one triball on their way out after the other team returned to the barrier
That’s concerning. You are saying whoever is ahead would lose even though both teams have the same fault? So if red would have won the auton, they would have lost the match? Why not just re-run the match?
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I agree, and it made for a long discussion with teams and coaches after the match. For clarity, I went back and found the Q&A post I mentioned.
Only the winner’s points matter for Match Affecting calculations. Depending on which Alliance won the Match, one number or the other shouldn’t be considered at all. For example, if red wins the Match, any points that were or weren’t scored by blue with illegal Match Loads should be completely disregarded when doing Match Affecting calculations. This system is designed to be easy for Head Referees to implement and calculate quickly during an event.
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I understand the reason behind this rule and it makes some sense during qualification matches but during a final this rule doesn’t seem really fair and should be changed for coming season. In this case if blue had worked on lowering their score by not doing a hang or descoring their own goal they would have won by virtue that they had less points. One could propose that the team who illegally descored the most would lose or if equal the team that did it first would lose. Which if used here would give the same outcome. This rule would make more sense and could be used during all the tournaments.
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Looking back at the video also…
At 39 seconds left, the blue alliance is de-scoring 2 tri-balls out the front of the goal at virtually the same instant Makapaka touches the long barrier. Makapaka is then pushed off the barrier for a new double-zone. The blue alliance then de-scores another. They hit the goal and are delayed leaving until 9123C ended the double-zoning. On their way out of the goal they hit the previously de-scored tri-ball and knock away from the goal.
At full speed, this is fairly hard to determine and I wouldn’t fault the refs for considering anywhere from 0-3 tri-balls being de-scored.
At 29 Seconds, Makapaka got hung up on the goal and clearly de-scored 1 tri-ball after the double-zoning ended.
This was a very close match and violations were match affecting.
Note: We have the hindsight of slow-motion replay, but I am a firm believer in NOT using it during matches and do not want to ignite that discussion.
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So how many illegal descores did blue have? The referee gave a thumbs up after the decscore during the game, and after some discussion with the red alliance, all the refs went backstage for a while before coming back and putting up the scores. Why did they discuss backstage? Also, how is match affecting calculated? Thanks!
I think the last finals match was 114-0 (0 Because of the dq)
I was just curious as to which triballs in the red goal was descored by blue illegally. Since the ref gave the thumbs up, I thought it was clean.
Agreed. It is rough having a DQ in the dome, but those teams are playing at the farthest extremes. I think setting up the audience for the high risk and reward behavior prior to play, then follow up with a statement of what the refs saw. It is valid to rule a DQ, just make the reasoning clear.
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I ment without the DQ (sorry).
At the same time the one ref gave a thumbs up, another ref is pointing at the middle barrier and the de-scored tri-balls (probably one reason they conferenced).
Here are some screenshots of the de-scores:
blue is under the goal and red has touched the barrier. I don’t thing anything is de-scored yet.
a split second later and red is still on the barrier and two tri-balls are out of the goal.
after red is pushed off the barrier, blue is about to leave and de-score another tri-ball.
Here you see that third tri-ball pop out before red can make it down the alley to end the double zone.
As Blue continues out of the goal, red ends the double zone. At full speed, one might think that tri-ball was illegally de-scored.
Here are a few images from red de-scoring the blue goal:
Red enters the goal during a double zone.
Red de-scores what looks to be 6 tri-ball before blue can reach the center barrier.
After getting stuck momentarily, red de-scores 1 tri-ball when leaving (double zone had ended)
you confused red and blue non-desored robots. Red non-descored robot is big black one.
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Again, I agree. There was a discussion about whether a team could ‘play possum’ if they were hit during a hang and purposely not score their hang to make their opponent get a dq despite both teams having made match affecting violations