Pushing off the center platform


#1

Is it legal to push robots on the center platform off from the ground, rather than the alliance platform?


#2

You are allowed to push robots off the center platform from any direction.


#3

What would happen if a screw or axle fell sideways onto the tile and created a hole. Would we be DQed for damaging the field?


#4

I got a warning to make sure I pushed and didn’t pull, but wasn’t DQ’ed. They were able to just barely mount it back at the last second, so I was very sad.

I wouldn’t try to push them off on their side, because I don’t like damaging other robots. I try to push them off on their wheels, but it can be hard.
I don’t really see that impact making enough of a hole to get DQ’ed, but, because you can’t force the other team to violate a rule, whatever happens will be blamed on your robot.


#5

There are some Q&A items related to this. The way we read it is there isn’t any rule against it, however my take is whether its ruled as a device on your robot with an intent to damage another robot.

Before the girls had a robot that could climb, they built an arm that would extend from the robot with a large 1x5x1 plate on it that was positioned just above the high platform so they could push on wheels or other part of the robot nice and low, as to not damage anything. We were cautioned on this, however its built to not damage the other robot, plus it also can be used to remove a cap from the platform, so there are other purposes for the arm.

Because of the caution discussion, and the risk of being disqualified, plus they now have a 4wd robot that can climb, the girls decided to remove the arm.

However, it was cool to push another bot from the platform. See my post here. A video is linked as well.


#6

Let me quote G12:

Pulling a robot is considered entanglement(according to the definition of VEX) which is a violation of G12, but since note 1 waives G12 for center parked robots, or even robots attempting to center park, you should not have even gotten a warning for entanglement. I have seen robots push center parked robots off the side countless times, and there has no warning or disqualification because it is completely fine to do (despite me not liking it though).


#7

I’ve looked through the Q&A. Let me see if I can find the link. You may just be right about entanglement. It was a cautious warning, and I was prepared to contest a DQ.
I’m going to review the Q&As, but I still don’t like entangling with other robots.

Edit: This is the Q&A that legalizes pushing from the tiles. It also mentions entanglement in the 2nd portion, but is unclear on the legality of entanglement. I see it as you can’t specifically design a mechanism to entangle yourself with robots, as it is every year, but incidental entanglement is okay, so long as it ends after the robot in question is pulled from the platform. Correct?


#8

R3 says that you cannot have systems that are solely built for entanglement and damage. If you have a mechanism that is built for pushing just so happens to entangle or damage, it would not be a warning or disqualification if you are utilizing the mechanism to get robots off of the center platform.


#9

Alright. I stand corrected. (Kind of) Thanks for the clarifications!


#10

On the other hand, if your device wasn’t “designed” to entangle the opposing robot and in successive matches it, in fact, entangled another robot, then I, as a referee, would make note and warn the team that even though they didn’t design it to entangle, they are, in fact, entangling and need to fix it so that it does not entangle or face a possible DQ.


#11

I’ve heard rulings that it is illegal to push an opponent off their own alliance platform.

For example say red is center parked. A blue robot attempted to push them off from the blue alliance platform. Red pushes back and the blue robot ends up pushed off their own alliance platform.

Is this legal in the context of fighting for the center? Or is it illegal because red pushed blue off of their alliance platform?


#12

From my understanding if both teams are fighting for the center platform it’s fine, also if blue is allianced parked and red drives into them and pushes them off that is also legal. But I am pretty sure it becomes illegal when you use another mechanism like an arm to push them off the alliance platform but just driving them off the platform is legal.


#13

If either robot is touching the center platform, G12 does not apply (within some common sense level of violence.) If a bot is on its own platform, G12 does apply, but that doesn’t prohibit pushing… only intentional destructive acts. It is quite possible to push a bot off their platform without violating G12.

edit: It is also quite possible that referees at a given event may not be crystal clear on what can happen. If you intend to be assertive on the platform, read the rules and Q&A carefully and be prepared to defend your position.


#14

I have printed out the Q&A that defends my ram since I received that warning and found the post again, and am ready to present it if need be. Any grey areas I usually like to be absolutely certain on.


#15

You could cite the Q&A link for others to have as well…


#16

I did. Here it is. :slight_smile:


#17

You heard wrong.
Think of the alliance platform as nothing but an extension of the playing field. Anything you are allowed (or not allowed) to do on the playing field you are allowed (or not allowed) to do on the alliance platform.

You have to be careful not to tip an opposing robot off of the alliance platform, just like you need to be careful not to tip a robot on the rest of the playing field. The center platform (at least touching it) is the only place where those rules relax.


#18

sorry missed it.