Updated G4cii to clarify intent of Students acting as Loaders for other Teams
This Student will effectively become a member of the new Team for that event, and cannot fill a role on the original Team (or on any other Teams) for the remainder of that event.
I’ve come to the conclusion that this rule is not needed and at the end of the day isn’t helpful, and it does not contribute to the overall goals of the program.
If I’m a mentor of a team and I get approached by a team to “borrow” a roboteer to be a loader, I’m going to say “NO”. I’m happy to give up a roboteer for 7 minutes of the day while your matches are going on. Not giving them up for the day. The roboteer could be a backup driver, could be the teams coder, could even be the teams loader.
Most of the ~60 teams that I work with have 4 roboteers on them. On average just 3 of them show up to the event. So keeping one of the roboteers for an entire day at event is a non starter. It’s even worse with the home schooled teams, getting a reliable third member is hard, so I expect “loan me a loader” to be a common thing.
I get that the RECF GDC is trying to keep teams from exploiting talented loader. But I think the universe of loaders that:
Reliably throw the ball from behind the score into the box
Have a mutation that gives them arms that can reach across the field like Reed Richards (Mr Fantastic) to drop the ball into place
Have psionics abilities that can:
Use telekinesis to move the ball into the loader
Use teleportation to jump to that side of the field
Use a time stop to make the match stop while they walk over and load the ball
Is pretty small.
I’d like to see this rule changed to where the loader can be shared on a match by match basis. Thanks!
I think what the GDC is trying to allow with this clause is that you borrow a loader from a sister team who is not at the event.
What happens when bob from one team is borrowed by another team, but bob drops a ball into the field (on accident or purpose) and causes a score effecting violation (I don’t know the rules very well but I know there’s a way). The team gets a DQ, is mad at bob, and issues a g1 claim on bob for sabotage. But, they did request bob onto their team… But bob is still a member of the other team…
Can you see where a problem might arise?
Ignoring my unlikely scenario, I would agree that this would seem like a positive rule change.
Actually no. If sister team isn’t at the event, how can they loan a loader? But let’s say Sister team is there. So the story would be
1 Arch rival team needs a loader
2 Sister team becomes a loader
3) Sister loader repeatedly rolls a ball onto the field during “rapid load” (this is the DQ a loader can create. (Well that and calling the referee a meany nose and violate G1.)
4) Arch rival team gets DQ keeping them from winning teamwork.
,
.
5) Profit?
How does “being a full time member of the team at that event” solve the “being a member on a match to match basis”?
Our org in middle school had 4 teams but could only get 3 spots for our first two tournaments. Probably not an uncommon scenario. Sometimes bots aren’t ready to compete and have to withdraw from the tournament.
Couldn’t agree more. Our finals partner only had 2 people so our loader had to sprint down and back the entire finals match, taking the robotics element out of the match, we still won, but our scores were half what we were getting in practice with 2 loaders.
I couldn’t agree more…and I have advocated with a rule change (sent an email to the rules committee who said they would evaluate it, but nothing changed in the following rule changes). I am a coach of a 2 person team…and they are quite concerned about getting paired with another 2 person team and not having a loader whatsoever (or having to forfeit a driver to have one load). I know most teams would be more than willing to help, if they didn’t have to forfeit their ability to load for their own team the rest of the day. I asked for that rule to be modified…or to allow the non-active driver to be a loader only in the case of 2 two person teams being paired together. I would encourage you to email the rules committee as well if you feel strongly.
I second this. We have wanted to let one of our team members be a loader for a different team, but we needed him to help with scouting and driving as well.
As always, please feel free to send an email to our GDC account with any feedback. Tagging that account here won’t really get ya anywhere. It is only logged into when updates get posted here.
Speaking candidly, though…
There were reasons this was changed. We feel they are good reasons. We understand the frustrations some are facing, but currently do not anticipate reverting this change.
This post isn’t really helpful. If theres reason why, can you tell us? Because right now from our perspective your just saying no to a huge issue with this years game without any reasoning.
@BananaPi - the post by Bailey is as close as we will get on a GDC rule on “why”. You know the phrase, “God, like the GDC, moves in mysterious ways”
At best we can accept it. At worst we can start rumors like:
There is an Indiana robotics team that knows Pacer all star Reggie Miller. He was giving one of the robotics team members lessons on how to do his famous jumper. So now the loader without moving from the goal side can do a low dunk directly into the loading station. All the teams were going to use this human loader, but the GDC rule took this away.